.22-06 or .22-250

Discussion in 'Center Fire' started by jcwat, Apr 1, 2009.

  1. jcwat

    jcwat Super Member

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    is there any advantage with the .22-06 over the .22-250? i'm thinking of maybe building another rifle.(next year, i'm tapped out right now) i cant seem to find any load data on the 22-06 wildcat. the only reason i'm even thinking about the 06 wildcat is that i have access to tons of 06 brass.
     
  2. wwb

    wwb Super Member

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    With the '06 case capacity, a .22 cal would be grossly overbore. The usual result is tons of powder burned for very little increase in velocity, and a shortened barrel life. As an example, pick a given bullet weight and compare the muzzle velocity and powder charge of the .223, the .22-250, and the .220 Swift.

    If you wanna do something fun with the '06 brass, get a .25-06..... not so grossly overbore, and the .25 caliber bullets do much better at long range. I know, it's not as "out there" as a .22 wildcat, but it really makes more sense.
     

  3. jcwat

    jcwat Super Member

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    i figured the 22-06 would burn out barrels. :( i am slightly leaning to a rebarrel job, using a .44-06 case. basically a rimless .444
     
  4. Wyo. Coyote Hunter

    Wyo. Coyote Hunter Super Member

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    jcwat, I have a question about your 44-06. Keith had a 400 Whelen. There were reports that this 40 cal. did not have enough shoulder to headspace correctly. Keith got along ok with his, but this could be a problem with the 44. :twisted: If you are looking at something a bit different with the 06 brass, check out the .25-06 Ackley Improved. I consider making one myself. I have a conventional 25-06 and except for very windy Wyoming days, it is a neat rifle. Have taken coyotes over 500 yards. It doesn't have the smack of my heavy .300 at long range, but it is easier to shoot. If I make another rifle soon, this is one I will consider. I don't know about your area, but I get to shoot my 22's more than my 25's and 25's more than my 30's. I killed acouple whitetails with mine last fall. did an ok job on them to 200 yards. I did have a Cheetah. It was a screamer, but the throat shot out pretty quickly. :(
     
  5. jcwat

    jcwat Super Member

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    here in n. georgia my long shoots are maybe 150yrds, and usually under 100yrds. i use a .45-70 most of the time, and have just started using my .35 whelen.(lefthanded ruger m77) the gunsmith i talked to has built several .44-06's. it is basically a straight walled cartridge.
     
  6. wwb

    wwb Super Member

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    ?????

    Can't be.... the '06 is rimless, so you need to have a shoulder to headspace it. As WCH stated, with a .44 cal (really .429") bullet, you ain't gonna have a lot of shoulder, so a set of reloading headspace gauges would be a must. Measure the base-to-shoulder dimension on a fireformed case, and neck size only, bumping the shoulder back to that dimension and trimming to length.

    Actually, I have a really great idea for a new cartridge..... how about necking down an '06 to .27 cal? If we could get one of the big-name outdoor writers to lead the charge, it might even become a commercial success. Whaddya think?
     
  7. jcwat

    jcwat Super Member

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    i guess it would "bottle neck" some. so headspacing on the shoulder would be right. your "idea" to neck to .27 caliber???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? :|
     
  8. jcwat

    jcwat Super Member

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    how about having marlin and hornady team up on something?
     
  9. Zerbe

    Zerbe Super Member

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    I think they should start with something a little bigger.. like the 300H&H.
    Neck it down to .308 caliber, maybe blow the shoulder out a bit... kind if like a Ackly, but rounded off a bit....
    Maybe jack the pressure up to 60k CUP or so....
    Naw, nobody would go for something like that..... :?
    Maybe if you neck that down to .27 cal. Hmmm.....

    I suppose that Hornady would just put a rim on it, make some rubber tipped bullets for it and put it in a lever gun....
     
  10. jcwat

    jcwat Super Member

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    they gotta keep coming up with "new" ammo so they can sell new/more guns. there is nothing like reinventing the wheel. they(ammo/gun co.) will show you why this new round is better than the regular old stuff. just read the article that was written by the guy who got all this free stuff just to test(and keep) it out and write a review. ????????
     
  11. uglydog

    uglydog Super Member

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    The 44/06 is not a rifle cartridge but instead is a pistol round meant for single shot pistols. One cuts a 30/06 case down to 1.285" and loads a 240 gr bullet with enough IMR 4227 to give it about 1150 fps. Not exactly a great round. I beleive it was initially intended for silhouette shooting but never caught on.
    If one cuts the brass down to 1.298" and loads a 240 gr bullet into it at a couple hundred feet per second faster using Alliant 2400, one could call it the 44 Auto Mag. Again, that is a handgun round that headspaces on the rim rather than a shoulder.
    As previously mentioned, the 400 Whelan has had difficulty headspacing as the shoulder is so small. Even "Improving" the case had little to no noticeable affect on this. I have not read of any successful attempt going to a larger diameter unless a belt is added to the case.
    The 30/06 case has a diameter of .440" which would not leave much for a .429" bullet. As the case cannot headspace on a shoulder and I doubt the rim would suffice either, therefore I don't think a full length 44/06 is a plausible choice.
     
  12. jcwat

    jcwat Super Member

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    i guess i could use .300 win mag brass. that way i get the belt. you gotta remember, this is just an idea on next build, caliber choice not set in stone.
     
  13. uglydog

    uglydog Super Member

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    neck up to .425" and you would have the 425 Express round. It was chambered by Savage for a brief time as I recall, maybe a few other small makers. It replicates the 404 Jeffery round in a standard action and should be a real killer. I wouldn't bother with a 44 caliber conversion as I don't think there is a rifle bullet made in this diameter. I doubt the 44 caliber bullets are designed for much more velocity than what one can find from the 444 Marlin and this would beat it by a couple hundred fps at least. Neck it up a little further and you would have the 458 Win mag.
    You could also try the 416 Taylor, that is just the 458 necked down to .416" Do this rather than neck up 338 mag as the neck walls can get a bit thin going that route. You will end up with a 416 Rigby like performance from a standard length action. I looked at oing this but went with the 416 Rem mag instead as I found out my action would accomodate that round.
     
  14. jcwat

    jcwat Super Member

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    what about the new 416 ruger??? it seems to match the rem mag in performance but in a shorter case. i think it is built on a standard length action. :D :D :D
     
  15. strut64

    strut64 Well-Known Member

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    another option that has not been mentioned is the 6mm-06. friend has one and with the right bullet it really steps out there. 22-06 is too much of a good thing -
     
  16. jcwat

    jcwat Super Member

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    is there too much of a good thing??? if i do go with a .22-06 i'd probably use 90grain bullets, so it would be comparible to using 6mm/.243's
     
  17. wwb

    wwb Super Member

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    90 grain .22 cal bullets look an awful lot like a pencil...... you'd need a 1:7 twist in order to keep 'em stable. With that sort of fast twist and heavy small-caliber bullet, you'd never be able to take advantage of the case capacity of the '06 to get some sort of screamer. My guess would be about 3,000 fps tops. Now, a 30 to 35 grain bullet with a 1:14 or 1:16 twist ought to be well over 4,000 fps.

    Not trying to throw cold water on any wildcat ideas, but there are some practical considerations you just gotta deal with.
     
  18. jcwat

    jcwat Super Member

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    the more ideas i kick around the more confused i get. :roll: somehow i always end up back at some kind of large caliber something or other. maybe i should just go with with the good old .460 weatherby. if it can run a 450 grain bullet at 2700fps, a 250/300grainer should be like a laser beam of death(3000+fps range??) for some strange reason i'm in this bigger is better frame of mind. i know that my .30-06 ,.35 whelen,and .45-70 are plenty enough gun for anything in north america. i guess i just have "MAGNUMITIS" sorry.

    does everyone go thru this? i'm 37yrs old, just had my 1'st custom gun built, and now i want some mega cannon type thing. is this the normal progression? does it get worse?
     
  19. huntswithdogs

    huntswithdogs Moderator

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    It took me a good while! I've got the shoulder problems now to prove it. But, I'll still break out the 3.5 shells come turkey season. Didn't shoot but one this year...couldn't use my arm for about 30 minutes...gonna have to go get this checked out, it's gotta kinda painful.
    I finally opened my eyes to the fact that dead is dead and ain't no magnum gonna make something no deader.


    HWD
     
  20. jcwat

    jcwat Super Member

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    ok, here it comes. rip me apart!!!! i have a mauser that has been rebarreled in .45-70. is it possible to rechamber it to .460 weatherby? i looked at the case dimensions of both. it looks like it would be possible, but would have to have to barrel set back.(? is that the right term???)