45-70 NEF

Discussion in 'Rifle Talk' started by timbertoes, Aug 2, 2004.

  1. timbertoes

    timbertoes Well-Known Member

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    Buddy, when the Barrel gets hot, them big ole 405 grain lead heads just get a MIND OF THIER OWN !!!! :x :x :x

    takes only about 6-7 shots one after the other, and goodbye, on hitting the dang 8" see-and-say target. (you call shoot and see). them bullets all over the place and mostly over to the left.

    using a commercial Cast lead bullet, pushing 1500 fps approx.

    made up some Lee-Mold wheel-wieght bullets with good ol Alox on them last night. maybe they will be better. but I fear thar aint nutting that can be done about a hot,hot barrel.


    45-70, for when the jobs gotta be done just right.
    good for P-dogs to Moose. :p
     
  2. clayshooter25/25

    clayshooter25/25 Well-Known Member

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    Hows the recoil compare to a 12 gauge firing target loads?
     

  3. Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    Timbertoes I just bought, about 2 months ago, a Marlin 1895 cowboy with a 26 inch octagon barrel and I really want to shoot it but had back surgery 6 months ago and I'm kinda scared to shake my spine right now,and I am told the 440 gr I have kick hard.I'm thinking of getting the 300 gr or 350 gr at first.With your experience,how bad is the kick on 440 gr?Drop-Shot
     
  4. goldeyeslayer

    goldeyeslayer Well-Known Member

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    oh bay those 45-70 howl :oops: . I have learned to take the .308 out to the range over the 45-70. Let me say, all you need if hunting really is 1 shot withe the 45-70, thats why I dont mess with the bothering with the barrel, lets face it my guide gun is not really known for shooting a good grouping.
     
  5. Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    goldeyeslayer on another area in shooting world 1 guy said he gets 2 inch groups with his 450 marlin and I sure was hopeing for at least 2-21/2 inch groups.Have you tried lighter bullets or lighter loads?Drop-Shot
     
  6. goldeyeslayer

    goldeyeslayer Well-Known Member

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    no, I have not tried lighter bullets, because to tell ya the truth I only really shoot targets before going hunting to test the loads out. Maybe I will have to try some, I cant really excpect 2.5 inch groups out of my lever action marlin, my model 88 will only get 2 inch groups and that .308. I think if you wanted better groupings with a 45-70 you would want to go with the longer barreled marlin in octagon barrel or for the best that single shot 45-70 ruger. I have been keeping an eye out for one used at the local shops.
     
  7. timbertoes

    timbertoes Well-Known Member

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    howdy.

    well, recoil wise, I do use a shoulder pad. I also put on a slip-over pad, becuase thats just how much of a wuss I am :)

    in bench-sitting position, it seems that the kick is worse due to the position compared to standing.

    sometimes it will get my shoulder muscle or bone, and that hurts, and enough to quit for the day.

    Now I have shot 1500-1600 fps 405 grain loads, that 31grains of H4198. they do kick.

    the 405 remington factory is reasonable
    the 300 grain, at nearly what is it, 1900 fps? they kick hard.


    BTW, i shot it yesterday using Rem. factory ammo, jacketed soft point 405 grain the accuracy was better than my handloads.
    I probably need to slug the barrel and size the cast bullets.

    I have seen the Guide guns, they are the cats meow. meow of death that is :) the NEF is OK-Doke, but a Marlin Rules.

    If all goes as planned, I will be Hog hunting north of Abiline on the 12-14th
     
  8. wwb

    wwb Super Member

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    Timbertoes... check your position at the bench. Most guys put the rifle too far forward, so they're leaning way forward to get their shoulder to the stock. The result is that the recoil is directed along your body, trying to compress your spine, rather than pushing your shoulder to the rear and twisting the torso. This makes you effectively "stiffer", and the recoil beats you up.

    If this is what you're doing (and most guys do, without even realizing it), pull the rest back some, and get into a more upright position; it'll help a whole bunch.

    As long as you want to keep tossing those bowling balls out there, though, it's still gonna kick. Watch out for the dreaded flinch... it's an easy disease to catch when you're shooting a cannon.
     
  9. timbertoes

    timbertoes Well-Known Member

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    yes, it takes a focused effort to pull the trigger smoothly.
    not only flinch problems, but closing the eyes !
    I do find myself starting to pull the rfile to the left ( i am leftie also) even before trigger pressure. some serious bad anticipation !!! I slow down, breathe and concentrate.

    often I will shoot to mimic an excited hunting shot, ie quick pull, scope wavering a bit... as i know its going to be...

    then I evaluate what would have happend , ie miss, or gut shot kind of thing.
     
  10. Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    Hey wwb I do that,I put my shoulder forward and I bet thats why I have a hard time with my 300 weatherby.And timbertoes arrett offers 420 gr at 1850 fps and 540 gr at 1550 fps,I bet that hurts and buffalo bore offers 405 gr at 2000 fps,500 gr 1625 fps,and a 430 gr at 1925 fps.These are all killers on both ends,however I am going to try what wwb said and see if I can cut down on sore sholders and sore back.Drop-Shot
     
  11. Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    I have very large shoulders and used them well in football,but now it seems every thing wwb has said came true so mabe I'm putting too much shoulder in my shot.I't don't matter with the 30/06 with recoil arrestor or the 243 but these 300 weatherby's hurt and I'm afraid to shoot the 45/70.I loaded a light load for 5 bullets and they should not be too bad.When my back heals I'll shoot any thing and an more than a little intrested in the 338 mag in a remington CDL.Drop-Shot
     
  12. Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    Hey I hate to post 3 times in a row but timbertoes you might want to look at leverguns.com they talk about a way to make all lever actions more accurate.I wish I knew exactly what he ment.Look at it and make it easy for an old mechanic to understand,I kinda get the picture but not completely.Drop-Shot
     
  13. Logjam

    Logjam Super Member

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    I have a half dozen or so 45/70's. I've got three original trapdoors, a cadet, a musket and a carbine. I also have a Swedish Rolling Block that has been relieved to accept the 45/70. And I own an old Ruger No 1.

    I've shot a lot of the old Winchester factory loads in the trapdoors. They kicked so lightly I had to ask the guy next to me if the gun had gone off. :lol: (A slight exaggeration).

    Then they started loading the ammo much hotter; and I'd be very careful now if I shot a factory load in one of my trapdoors. Sometimes it's kind of hard to figure whether you've got a hot or mild cartridge.

    I've also shot some old and hot loads in the Ruger No 1. You can load them with unique and a cast bullet, or with FFG and it's a pussy cat. But stuff a Remington 405 jacketed bullet and 38 grains of 3031 in there and that beauty will really talk to you.

    I love shooting 45/70's. You can load a cast 459 bullet in front of a case stuffed full of black and it's quite mild. Use a magnum primer. Some even open the priming hole to .096 to let in more fire. You can get them to shoot to the sights.
     
  14. Logjam

    Logjam Super Member

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    Re: re: 45-70 NEF

    You know what, Drop Shot? If I were you, I'd toss that 338 Mag and the 300 Weatherby too. Why the hell do you want to put yourself throught the bang, blast and jolt? You'll have just as much fun shooting a .243. You can hunt deer, and bear with one....if you want to go after a Griz; then borrow the 300 Weatherby from the guy you sold yours to. I can almost guarentee that he hasn't been shooting it either.

    I'm as tough as the next guy, but I say, "screw it" when it comes to shooting those guns that kill at both ends.

    Most of my shooting nowadays (I'm almost 60) is with a .22 and I love it. I hunt with a .257 Roberts or a 270. Most of my hunting though is done with a skatter gun.

    Sure a lot of guys like to strut around with one of those magnum canons. They also have a flinch and are hard of hearing.
     
  15. deerdown444

    deerdown444 Active Member

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    Drop-Shot
    If you will drop down to a 300 grain bullet and use the starting load with IMR 4198 or the starting load with IMR 4064.It will have recoil about like your 30-06..My 11 year old son shoots my 45/70 with 52.9 grains of IMR 4064 with the hornady 350 grain RN..This is a medium load.The starting load is 48.2 grains..My father has had heart surgery and has had half a lung removed and is 64 years old and he shoots IMR 4198 with 48.0 grains with the 300 grain remington HP.And the recoil doesn't bother him.I have tested a lot of loads for the 45/70 and you can get very accurate loads.That don't have alot of recoil.Or you can just get a factory box of remington.The recoil on them is light compaired to most of my reloads.

    P.S.
    Or you could just send that 1895 cowboy to me.And I will let you know how it shoots... :lol: :lol: Just kiding you..HE HE
     
  16. Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    Thanks guys I am more of a gun accumulater than a collector,I find the 300 weatherby to be not bad at all but that was before I broke my back,I'm all togather with bolts,plates,and rods so it may be harder to shoot now.I pray each day to get better and I hope I will,thats why I keep the boomers,just in case I get better.Back in 1984 I was fused and the doctors said I would never work again,I worked till 2002 with no problems.This last operation was bigger but I'm counting on the doctors not know ing as much as they think,If they do then I'm sunk but mabe I will get better.Having a muscleular trunk,I hope the muscles will over compensate for weak spine and I will get better.So I will keep the boomers for now,if the doctors prove to be right I will have a sale,but I'm hoping they are wrong.Drop-Shot
     
  17. Logjam

    Logjam Super Member

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    Aw; Drop; seems to me that you've been run through the mill. I'm sorry that what has happened to you has. No one deserves to be in pain.

    All that being said; I'd stick with my original formula. Shoot light and enjoy. Sure you can bang away with the he-man guns; but I just don't run with that crowd (not that they are bad guys.)

    You can play with the 45/70 and fit it to your ability to take the recoil. It's always fun to toss those heavy cast lead bullets down range.
     
  18. Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    Logjam I used to look at The bigger calibers due to the serious confrontation with a grizzley over an elk I shot.But I think you are right,only one grizzly confrontation and 2 black bears in 51 years don't give appropiate response to caliber selection.I have a 308 and a 300 savage bolt actions rem 700's and I am thinking about 7mm08,I also have a 243 BLR and a 358 BLR.so I have lighter calibers.The memory of a young grizzly charging and stopping about 3 feet from me and screaming to the top of his voice makes me want the boomers but a screwed together back says 243 and 358(308 case necked up to 35 cal)only for now.When I get better I have many many handguns to carry along that could spoil a bears day.But voice of experience sounds more correct.Buy the way,thanks for your thoughts,I have been out of a wheelchair for 9 months and can walk short distances.Partner,Take care of your back,you don't get do-overs.All that read this thread heed that advice.Drop-Shot
     
  19. Logjam

    Logjam Super Member

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    Hey Drop...How is that 358 anyway? I've never even held one much less shot one. I just don't see them around.

    I think they made the Savage 99 in it. Bet that's a nice gun.

    It's sad that Winchester quit on their 375. Seems like a lot of people'd like one. I've never had much faith in the decision making successes of Winchester..or US Repeating Arms, or whatever they call themselves now.

    Nice to be out of that chair isn't it. I was in one once for three months.....I feel for those who spend their lives in one.
     
  20. Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    I know I will be in one some day,I just saw the doctor and he says I'm a match stick away from either the chair ore the bed,so I enjoy all the days I can get around.He was mainly talking about dragging an elk out by myself and I won't do that.I use a come-a-long,it takes awhile but it saves my back.I have shot the 358 and I feel it's my new best friend.I have a leupold VXll 3-9x40 and bore sighted with a new laser boresighter and at 100 yards it was dead on,no adjustments side to side and it hit dead on at 100 yards,I wanted it to be 2 inches high at 100 yards,but I figure I'll hold over if well over 100 yards and won't shoot if over 200 yards,I'll get closer.It's a 308 necked up for 35 cal and they make big holes,the first 2 shots were about 1 inch and the 3rd made it above 2 1/2 inch.3rd one high.I found shinny spots in the forearm but haven't felt well enough to relieve the forearm as of yet.As age doese,my shoulder and hands have developed arthritis and while wet I feel it.It gets cold in Montana but its a dry cold and I think I'll feel better.If I don't them at least I will have a view.But I'm positive and feel all will be better in Montana.The place I like to hunt,I can drive close to a dead elk or muley and a come-a-long will do the hard part.I plan on putting a large piece of metal between the bed and cab,I'll drill a hole and put an eyelet to come-a-long an animal in the truck.I feel the 35 can do it all that I need,180 gr -250 gr.