Re-Barrell verses New gun

Discussion in 'Rifle Opinions' started by Drop-Shot, Nov 17, 2004.

  1. Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    Need help,I own a rifle that shoots about 1 1/4 inch groups,I have some at 1 inch but most are above that.The biggest problem is when a gunsmith put this gun in the bell & carlson stock he parkerized the gun and put a recoil arrestor(ear buster)on the gun.The gun don't kick but even with ear muffs on I flinch due to the noise.People around me loose hearing every time I shoot,and while hunting I quit using the gun due to not wearing ear protection and the headaches I get at 1 shot.I want it re-barrelled I think,I could buy a tikka T3 for about 500.00 or re-barrell this ruger for 550.00 with a guarrenty of sub minute of angle.The salesman said the tikka will be a 1 1/2 inch gun and I do about 3000 per year and could offer 1/2 inch groups or less.Most importantly he can't perfectly match the parkerized barrell and will give a 24 inch heavy contour barrell(not bull barrell,but above sporter) and will true the action and keep my Bell&Carlson stock.What should I do?Make a great gun better or replace it?Drop-Shot
     
  2. 8pointduck

    8pointduck Super Member

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    DS, If he keeps your stock then what kind of stock will you have./As far as matching the parkerizing that might look good. What kijnd of barrel is he talking about replacing it with?If they are not reputable then I'd get the T3.
     

  3. Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    8point this is accuracysystemsinc.com They say no gunsmith shop can have what they have,and the barrel is their brand,They have been making barrells for 13 years and if the gun don't shoot like they promise they will take it back.They will use my Bell&Carlson stock but will re-finish it.Take a look at them and tell me what you think.They mainly work with Remingtons but he said the older Rugers have alot of metal that the newer guns don't have.The recievers of older guns like the ruger is on par with the Remingtons.He says alot of newer guns have light recievers and he won't make alot of claims until he looks at the reciever condition.He is not a big fan of the T3 Tikka and says he can make my gun shoot circles around all other guns.I've heard that before and want to find out if a claim with the Better Business Beauro(misspelled)has been made.It's easy to say something and another to back it up.He said my gunsmith could put a shilen or a douglas air guaged and can't offer the guarrenty of sub-MOA accuracy.I'm still debateing.Drop-Shot
     
  4. MarlandS

    MarlandS Well-Known Member

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    If they check out with the BBB I'd go for the rebarrel, no sense in saving a few bucks for a gun that may not shoot any better than what you've got now.
    I wonder if a guy could tape that earbuster? Sure, you'd still have it there but it wouldn't register on a seismograph 5 miles away when you fire it.
     
  5. Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    I was told several years ago that if you don't bugger the threads taking the recoil arrestor off,you can get a nipple that threads on the barrel.The problem Marlands is that after a couple of years the threads weld themselves to the recoil arrestor,and if you get it off you could easyly spend 150.00 to cut the barrell and recrown the barrell end.You would have a 20 inch barrell and mabe 18 or 19 depending on the thread depth.I just sent my 870 to the factory and that will cost some,I don't know how much yet,the gun will arrive in new york this friday and who knows when they will get to it and send an estimate.I'm thinking of january at the soonest to make a decision on the re-barrell job,I love the old ruger and would like to keep it but I just can't shoot it.I have tried to tape it with duct tape and it blowes it away 1st shot.Thanks Marland for taking the time to let me know what you think.Drop-Shot
     
  6. Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    8point with the information to now,what would you do?Blue printing the action,re-barrell on my stock and he says he will guarrenty sub MOA as long as the action is ok.That part scares me,I know mechanics that will bid a job,tear it down,and go up on prices knowing the customer will have to pay or get his car in parts in boxes.I would drive to SC to personally strangle the person that would do that to me.So what would you do?Drop-Shot :?:
     
  7. 8pointduck

    8pointduck Super Member

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    I say go for it! Any gunsmith or custom gun shop wouldn't want to make a claim they couldn't keep or make good. They are not like mechanic shops that are everywhere ,they have to ride on there reputation.If they don't do a good job you can come and get me and I will help you strangle them.........I'm on the way
     
  8. Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    Marlands a gunsmith said that this kind of recoil device is only threaded 1/2 inch,he recommended cutting the threaded end off and recrowning the barrell with a tool from Brownells,I could put this whole thing off for awhile.To be honest I am not able to shoot as accuratly as most on this site,1-1 1/2 inch at 100 yards is all I can do,I don't know if thats as good as the rifle can do,but I rarely miss any game,I keep my range within 200 yards and mostly less than that.I don't know if it would be worth spending money I need on some thing that I could not do justice to,mabe I could only shoot the same with all that done.I don't know,what do you think?Drop-Shot
     
  9. Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    Hey 8point I may take you up on that ,my temper is a little larger than I am.I'm only 5 feet 6 or 7 inches and have had to fight all my life to stay with the big boys.I get respect,I'm built like a bull dog,when in football I was named stump for a reason.You could be my backup!But I think you are right,they would be out of business if they lied,and better business bureau has no complaints on them.I'm still thinking.Drop-Shot
     
  10. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Hey 8point,HWD,mountainview,ugleydog.wwb.gwp4ever,Marlands.luv2,JP and all,look at this site and let me know what you think,rifle-accuracy.com/ they take accuracy a little differently.Look at this site and let me know what you think, Just thinking out loud.Drop-Shot
     
  11. Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    That was me Drop-Shot,all on this site,you too aaron,goldeyes and all the others I can't remmember right now,if I left out your name I'm sorry but the medication I take makes me forget,look at the site. rifle-accuracy.com/.Drop-Shot
     
  12. uglydog

    uglydog Super Member

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    I haven't heard of the company but that shouldn't be surprising. I would be hesitant of the company based on what you said, that they stated there was no gunsmith that could do what they can. It may be true but I like a little more humility in the people I deal with. If you have a problem, will this attitude carry over into their attempts to solve the dissatisfaction. I would ask for references, including dissatisfied ones, and contact them. The price seems low but different regions can have extreme spreads price due in large part to labor prices.
    From the little exposure I've had to the Tikka, I like it and it seems to be more accurate than you were quoted. That said, I would look at rebarreling. It seems to be an action and trigger you are happy with and would make it usable to you. As you are looking and shipping the gun off, research other outfits that do barrel work, you may find someone who clicks with you.
     
  13. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    uglydog I got prices from www.emg.com and vandykerifles.com both were given to me from a person on gunblast.com and all are about the same in price and all have been in business for ever.accuracysystemsinc.com are the only ones that makes there own barrells,I just don't know any body that has had work from these guys.There biggest business is with the government for sniper rifles for the military and police.Take a look at rifle-accuracy.com and let me know what you think.They take a different approach to accuracy with factory barrells.The folks you are talking about is the only company that makes there own barrells and have tooling for so many makes and models,but they do prefer Remingtons.I agree that 550.00 is alot but look at jarrettrifles.com and look at his guns,they start at 6500.00 and promise 1 inch groups with a 300 win mag or their version of it.You have to buy their ammo,I just want a not as loud 30/06 on my action that is accurate.I like a longer barrell to give extra weight up front,the lightweight rifles move around with me and I can't shoot them accuratley.If my rifle had a little longer barrell I feel I could hold it steady.I have shot the sendero from remington and I kept .75 inch group with it.I'm still thinking and I look forward to your's and everybodys opinion.I have a bad back but my arms and hands are extremely strong.At therapy my hand strenght and arm strenght go off the scale,so I am able to hold a rifle steady but it needs a little weight up front to do so,thats why I don't think a new T3 will shoot any better in my hands cause the barrell is the same contour(sporter) and is only 22 inches like my ruger.Some guns I can hold steady longer than others,but all have heavier barrells.Thanks for the input and keep it coming.Drop-Shot
     
  14. Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    Has any one else had the problem of not being able to hold some rifles and not others steady or is it just me?Drop-Shot
     
  15. grimel

    grimel Well-Known Member

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    Re: re: Re-Barrell verses New gun

    I think they are full of crap. Predator Custom will match them shot for shot and then some. Before spending $$ I'd give Predator Custom $50 to cut and recrown the barrel (plus shipping and handling). I have PERSONALLY shot this man's match grade 1911's. They shoot better than you do (I don't care who you are). His rifles are absurd. An even better point is they advertise on the local TV/cable channels.

    Nope, I think we all have problems holding some rifles steady off hand.

    http://www.predatorcustomshop.com
     
  16. Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    Thanks for the reply and I will call the gunshop for a price.I have kept in touch with John at GreatWesternGunsmithing and he said "I don't know how they can make that statement,there are too many varibles in shooting" he then said he had visited the web site and said they have more equiptment than most shops but the man running the machine has to know what he's doing and then he said he had never heard of them before.Thats scary.When I was still healthy I shot a remington sendero,it had a heavy barrell and with leaning on a tree I held it more steadly than any rifle I have picked up,and I have since found that longer barrelled guns I can hold more steady,The owner of the remington sendero said he had the same problem holding a light rifle steady,thats why he had a heavy barrelled gun.I am going to cut the threaded part off and reface the muzzel,the tool for refacing is 68.00 I think at Brownells and a bore lapping tool that runs on a drill.I'm doing this as a temporary fix,I plan to have it re-barrelled with a heavier barrell(not bull but above sporter)and I feel I will be able to hold it more steady.Predator gunshop has a good web site and I will call them for a price,I see that they can blue print actions so they must have alot of tooling.The gentleman I talked to at accuracy systems in SC said some thing that threw me off,he claimed the sub MOA was with his shooting and he would send me the target,I know I'm not the shooter I used to be but sub MOA better be with me on a shooting vise.I think I'll wait to compile more info before re-barrelling.Thanks for the input guys,any body if you have a thought on this thread,just drop me a line.Drop-Shot
     
  17. grimel

    grimel Well-Known Member

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    Re: re: Re-Barrell verses New gun

    That is insane. If the gun is sub MOA it's sub MOA with a competent shoot and good ammo. My Savage 110 7mm RemMag is right at MOA with about any 160+gr factory ammo you care to try. My NEF 243 Handi is MOA with WW 100gr PP factory ammo. Mike Bellm gives a sub MOA guarentee on his Contender barrels (IIRC, even factory barrels he works over).

    FWIW, the bolt action at the Predator site will shoot 10 shots in a dime.
     
  18. Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    Thats worth alot grimel,thanks,my physical health is getting worse so mabe I should be content with the guns(alot)I have.The BLR I just got after lapping the barrell twice shoots a 2 shot group of less than an inch,3 shots are about 11/4 to 1 1/2 inch groups and I don't even bother with long shots any more.I have alot of rifles to replace it for now,but I will rebarrell that ruger one day.Back in Helena Montana where we moved from has a world renoun benchrest shooter and he gunsmiths for capital sports.My brother -in -law says he had one rebarrelled and re chambered with a hart barrell for 350.00 about 6 years ago,I may wait till I get back to Montana to do any thing.Thanks for the input and it all helps in my decision making.Drop-Shot
     
  19. grimel

    grimel Well-Known Member

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    That's a good plan. Having experiance (even if it's a brother/friend) wtih a gunsmith is important. That sounds like a great deal. The smith at Predator did my 1911 and HP (both of which like an idiot I sold/traded) so I'm comfortable with his work.

    That BLR sounds like a shooter. That's minute of deer out to way past where I'd take a shot.

    Hope your health improves.
     
  20. Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    Yea grimel that is not bad for a BLR.The holes on the 35cal is so big that it's hard to measure,when the gun gets hot it shoots 2 inch groups,I took the fore stock off and found a few shinny spots showing the barrell is touching the wood as the barrel heats up,but if it don't shoot any better thats ok I'm happy,1 shot 1 dead animal.Boy that 35 cal is a killer,I watched an older gentleman shoot an elk at 200 yards or mabe a little longer with a 35 whelen,that 225 gr silver tip went through both shoulders and tore up all in between and exited.The elk lunged about a foot and fell.This 358 I have is a 308 necked up for 35 cal bullets.At gunblast.com in the archives has an articale on the 358 BLR,mine is an older all steel reciever the newer ones are aluminum but I have heard of no problems with the new reciever,and I would love to have a 270 or mabe 30/06 to add to my collection,I saw a used abolt 270 and am trying to work out a trade or lower price.Have a good day.Drop-Shot