Semi or bolt when buggen out amongst couger and bear?

Discussion in 'Rifle Talk' started by Anonymous, Jun 12, 2004.

  1. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    I am trying to decide on a rifle for my remote cabin. I am leaning toward a 300 mag of some sort for deer and elk but can not decide what action I want. I feel that the semiauto would be more reassuring in any close encounters with dangerous beast or men but I also want extreme dependability and ease of maintenance. I realy like the m14 and FN FAL varients but keep hearing that 308 win. is a bit underpowered for big bear protection. God forbid that I would ever have to kill one of those beautiful creatures but animal aggression is certainly on the rise.

    Any suggestions would be appreciated.
     
  2. gwp4ever

    gwp4ever Super Member

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    I don't think animal aggression is on the rise as much as over development is. Alot of these animals (especially cougars) are getting kind of bad rap lately. We are the ones moving more and more into their territory and they are only doing what comes naturally.

    Personally I'd go with the .300 but its definitley not the only caliber out their. I'd also stick with a bolt action because no matter what caliber you choose it won't matter if it's jammed up on you when you need it most.
     

  3. Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    I agree with gwp4ever on part of his comments,The last 3 years I got deer in Montana I was challanged by bears for the animals I shot.1 was a grizzly and 2 were black bears.I'm 51 years old and have been hunting since I was 7 years old and that was the first time I was challanged by bears.Black bears have run people away from kills by several guys I used to work with.Game wardens reissued tags but that never used to happen.The last year I hunted in Montana,I had to leave a 4x4 elk because a grizzly claimed it.Bears are more agressive in back country also.While gold prospecting in the hills of Montana,miles away from people and citys 2 black bears ran me up a tree and tore my tent up and pissed on every thing I brought.So it's a real problem now,Bolt actions hardly never fail and all semi's can,bring 220 gr 300 win mag or 200 and be cautious,no animal is worth your life.Drop-Shot
     
  4. Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    I hate to post 2 times in a row but look at garrett cartridges inc and take a look at garrett's 45/70 loads.If a 45/70 bullet does what he says then a lever action might be an option for bears and cougars.I bought one after reading his web page.Drop-Shot
     
  5. goldeyeslayer

    goldeyeslayer Well-Known Member

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    My vote goes to the marlin guide gun. It is fast and reliable. It comes in 45-70 wich can take down almost any big game. Being lever action you wont have to worry about it jamming, or being to damn slow. It sounds like this is what you want. I would reccomend the stainless steel.
     
  6. goldeyeslayer

    goldeyeslayer Well-Known Member

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  7. Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    goldeyeslayer I read the entire site and it sounds like they disagree with garrett cartdriges inc about the importance of metlap,I think it's called,and there a little cheaper than garretts.If any one out there has actual experience with these two companys rounds please let me know.Drop-Shot
     
  8. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    gwp4ever I agree with you that over development as well as poor management of natural resources or the main cause of the problem. However, there is abundent and worldwide evidence showing an increase in unnatural behavior among many animal species ,especially predators. Some say that attacking humans is unatural in its self since we are not a natural food source but I don't really buy that because humans have been living among these predators since the beginning of time IMOP. However, a few examples of unnatural behavior includes grizzly bears forming hunting "groups" and destroying cabins and sometimes whole lodges. Cougers and wolves have also been breaking into homes or systematically raiding villages and killing children. Shark attacks on swimmers are also on the rise.

    My liberal professors will tell you that human overpopulation and all human intrusion are bad for the environment. They say to just leave mother nature do her thing without human intervention and everything will be fine. However it has become apparent that this very philosophy has been the main cause behind most of the recent and devastating forest fires. There is overwelming evidence that many peoples of the past and present whose lives had depended more on wildlife knew how to care for and preserve the land making it more biodivers. I mentioned most because there were those groups of ancient and modern indigineous peoples who "wiped out" many species as well.

    Humans are meant to be the stewards of the earth but we often fail miserably to do our job. And as the prophets predicted in Joel 1:15 to 30; Isaiah 18:6, and Rev. 6:1 to 8 we will eventually reap what we have sown through either fire, wild animals or some other natural calamity.

    I tried to hold off from preaching but it just kept itching at me.

    Anyway, thanks for all of the good advice. What do you all think of the new semi auto Benelli R1 or the new military 6.8x43 spc (.270 special purpose cartridge) that may take over the .223's this year?
     
  9. Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    Guest,log in and forget the guns I liked your answer to whats going on!I am 51 years old and have been around bears in the south as a young lad and all would run as soon as they saw you.Even when I first moved to montana I've been 10 feet from a black bear while elk hunting and when I moved my hand he left,but not as fast as years past.The last gold prospecting adventure was the summer of 1999 and 2days walk from the nearest road put me hunderds of miles from people.No signs of people since yhe 40's to mabe 50's.I found a hand built cabin with a newspaper that was brittle and almost dirt.I went out the next morning with a 44 mag with me but put it in the tent with clothes due to the heat and weight.2 black bears saw me and lowered their heads and ran for me,I made haste up a connifer and went all the way to the top,both bears were male caused they pissed all over the tent they tore to shreds and my clothes.The things I left from the year before I brought it all home and told game wardens what happened.They wrote the report but could do nothing else since they could not know those bears from others.That fall I moved to the Seattle area and I haven't been back to gold prospecting and since I just had major back surgery and have rods and plates I may never get back.But I have the memorys of being attacked while doing nothing,Our guest should log in for more imformation.Plus the last year I hunted(the year before)elk I shot a 4x4 at about 50 yards,I leaned my rifle against a tree and walked to the elk like so many times before.This time was different the elk started to kick his legs(still nothing different)and a young grizzly jumped on him and pissed on him.I went back and got my gun but the bear got between me and the elk and stood up I was 20 feet away and would not be ashamed to say I was scared.I loaded 220gr in 30/06 but could not shoot,I left because some thing wasn't right that was not supposed to happen.Now I have an answer as to why.Drop-Shot
     
  10. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Drop-Shot

    I am glad that you liked my comments since I often take a lot of heat for being outspoken especially at school.

    I hope that you don't mind me telling you that although I realize that you were in a serious and and maddening condition there in Montana, I have to admit that I have never laughed so hard from reading a forum than when I read about you climbing that tree and not being able to anything but watch those bears piss all over your stuff.

    I know what you mean when you say something just aint right while out in the bush. I just recently had that feeling while hiking in Central America. I had a strange feeling that I was in danger but I could not see or hear anything. A week later I passed the exact same spot and the feeling was even stronger this time . I just stood still for a long time then continued on. When returning home by this same spot I was able to see above this same spot a big dark blobbish looking swarm of killer bees nesting in the tree canopy. I dont know how I kept missing them but I sure senced danger. Killer bees and anything that stings scare the heck out of me but they may not be such a bad thing. According to some scientist the North American honey bee which is being ravaged by mites is at the same time being taken over by killer bees which are resistant to mites. Thus human influence has in this case benifitted nature.
     
  11. Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    Thanks for the reply donn,now that it's been several years since the 2 black bears ran me up a tree and ransacked my belongings,I can laugh a bit but I bet there is a tree with my finger prints still on that tree.I've been challanged 2 other times but the bears didn't win,I learned not to hunt alone anymore and friends came and made enough noise to run those bears off.But that was only deer,not that I would ever make lite of a mule deer's life,but the grizzly was an elk,and I hated that.I shot the elk and the bear claimed it,he came from behind brush-rock and jumped on the elk after it was down on the ground.I guess he thought the elk died of fright,mortified at just the sight of grizzly.I bet he tried that trick 100 times since then and can't figure out why he was not successfull.He may have died worried over it or mabe starved to death not finding dead elk lying around.but one day I'll go back to heaven,oh oh Montana.Drop-Shot
     
  12. Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    hey goldeyeslayer,Have you ever used buffalobore rifle ammo and with what results?Garretts or buffalobore,I don't know,If you ever used that brand then please tell me how well they did.I have a box of 20 rounds of 45c 260gr rated at 1450fps.I have not shot them but as soon as I get better I will,through a rugervaquaro,not a colt clone.If no one has shot both I guess I will have to.Many thanks.Drop-Shot
     
  13. goldeyeslayer

    goldeyeslayer Well-Known Member

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    yes I have, I tried there .44 in one of my marlin lever action for deer and it was great(one shot kill), as to there .45-70 no I have not tried it because my guns relativily new, but will soon. I cant say much about garrets, because I have not found some one who sells it locally, but they sell buffalo bore ammo at cabelas.
     
  14. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    I've talked to a few guys at the gun shop where I visit and 1 said he was dissatified with garrett,he now shoots buffalo bore cartridges and feels like he can take reasonable shots with buffalo bore's.He said he and 1 of his friends could not get accuracy out of garretts.I know all guns are different but I have come to conclusions to try buffalo bore first in my 45/70.Drop-Shot
     
  15. Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    goldeyeslayer,that was me Drop-Shot,I forgot to log in,but I think I am going to try buffalo bore first.Drop-Shot
     
  16. goldeyeslayer

    goldeyeslayer Well-Known Member

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    I like the r1 too. But it is going to have to come down in price to sell. Benelli just does not have the rep with rifles
     
  17. Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    I agree about the benelli and thanks for the sites you recommended donn.Goldeyeslayer,what 44mag loads from buffalo bore did you use?You mentioned 1 shot kills and even though I have several rifles,one I haven't shot yet,I'll be hunting with a hand gun this year.Also I spent most all morning hand lapping the 45/70 I haven't shot,and the barrel is so shiny and smooth.I sure wish I had the money to buy a boroscope.Drop-Shot