what for home defense and just fun shooting

Discussion in 'Military Style' started by markIVbigblock, Nov 4, 2004.

  1. markIVbigblock

    markIVbigblock Super Member

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    what would u guys go w/ for home defense and just somethin to shoot and have fun w/ and why? the 2 im lookin at are the beretta cx4 and an ar-15 prolly a rock river arms thanx

    Aaron
     
  2. 1300pump

    1300pump Well-Known Member

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    get the ar-15. they are way cool.

    -Tim
     

  3. huntswithdogs

    huntswithdogs Moderator

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    When it comes down to defending your family,self and property,you simply cannot beat a 12ga shotgun loaded with anything that'll shoot out of it. When considering a rifle of any sort,you also have to think of where the bullet will stop after ventilating a "suspect". Same as using a 44 mag or 357. If you live in an apartment or have close neighbors,any shot that leaves your dwelling may cause damage or bodily injury elsewhere. Just a little something to think about....

    HWD


    ps: looking down the business end of a shotgun has a psycologic( spelling?) advantage over the tiny hole in a rifle or pistol also.
     
  4. 1300pump

    1300pump Well-Known Member

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    hunts I totaly agree with you, ive got a winchester 1300 defender for my HD gun, and am looking forward to an colt M4. to fill my next slot in my gun cabinet.

    -Tim
     
  5. zombie

    zombie Member

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    The AR15 would work fine as a home defense weapon, if loaded correctly.
     
  6. Logjam

    Logjam Super Member

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    Now I know what I'm about to say isn't going to be agreed to by many, but I think that a .22 LR is just finefor home defense. I have a pal who's a retired Long Beach, CA cop. From his experence in the streets of Compton, he says that the good old .22 rim fire is very deadly. Apparently the .22 after it gets inside goes around and around seeking the point of least resistance, and does a lot damage, many hit with a .22 rimfire die.

    This same cop said that a .357 mag for instance; just blows right on through. Not pleasant to be hit with one, however; I'm sure.

    When discussing home defense folks often mention knock down power. Certainly the .22 doesn't knock a guy down, but it does kill.

    So, if you want a gun for self defense and fun I suggest the .22 rifle. Furthermore power isn't that important as you usually don't have to shoot when you confront an intruder. Just pointing the gun is enough, or single shot into the ceiling, or the floor. (But don't forget that that .22 does go through and through flooring and ceilings.)

    However, if you really think that you are in danger and you want to be able to kill an intruder; shoot him with a shotgun. Bird shot works just fine. The wounds made by a shotgun even shooting 7 and a halfs are really amazing. They also knock the bad guy down, if hit in the abdomen the belly cavity is ripped open and the entrails spill out. If hit in the head it desolves into a pink mist. Real icky man.

    And remember, you can also have fun with the shotgun when not defending your abode.

    If you get a gun for home defense you will probably never have to use it as such. so get one that is first a fun gun. The home defense exposure is secondary.

    BTW: I'd suggest a long gun. Pistols are just too hard for most folks to shoot. Remember it's very possible that your wife will be doing the shooting, as the scum bag will likely plan the heist knowing that you aren't home.

    Also it's important that you take your family out and practice with whatever canon you get. Do it often, as they'll need to have their skills reinforced. It's also a family fun thing to do.

    Good luck.
     
  7. uglydog

    uglydog Super Member

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    I was looking at a CX4 today and it is a Siren calling to me. It was a 40 caliber so I was able to resist its song, barely. If it would have been in 9mm, I may have had my Christmas presents returned by the wife. I would like one to replace my Marlin Camp Rifle as it is beginning to show its age and usage. The wood stock is getting rather worn and the action needs a thorough going over. I like the 9mm as the ammo is cheap and plenty powerful for varmints. The longer barrel makes the 147 gr bullets much more effective than out of a pistol though the 115 gr hollow points are generally too thinly built for close use out of the rifle.
    I bought an M4 style rifle several weeks ago and really like it. It is short, light, and easy to carry. I ordered it with a slower twist as the fast twist for the 60+ gr bullets did not group to my liking with the lighter 45-55 gr bullets I often use. It is a fun gun and, again, ammo is fairly cheap.
    I really can't recommend one over the other; if home defense is a major consideration, maybe the CX4 would be a better choice in a long arm as it appears to be easier to maneuver in tight quarters. For a static defense, either would be fine. If shooting and "looking cool" is a prime motivation, then an AR type gun would be the ticket. There are so many accessories for it that one would go blissfully broke trying them out. I have just begun and it already is becoming an obsession.
     
  8. gwp4ever

    gwp4ever Super Member

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    That might be true but the only problem is that it doesn't kill quick enough. Someone shot several times with a .22 may take minutes or longer to die- if he dies at all. That is way more time for someone to inflict harm on myself or family than I am willing to give.
     
  9. Logjam

    Logjam Super Member

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    Re: re: what for home defense and just fun shooting

    Indeed, and I agree. I guess what I'm trying to communicate is that a .22 can be used as a home defense weapon, if that's all you have at hand and a idiot breaks into your house, go ahead and blast him with a 22. Empty the magazine.

    Also if you are only going to buy one gun I suggest a 22 as they are so much fun to shoot and a good gun to use to teach kids how to shoot.

    If you get a gun just for home defense it's going to spend it's entire life in your sock drawer (hopefully). But if you get a 22 you'll have fun with it as well as some home defense.

    But you are absolutely right that a shotgun, or a .45 (if you can hit with it) is a much better gun to attack an intruder with and they are much more likely to knock someone down than is a 22.

    My fave gun for home defense, as I've said is a shotgun, but I like a .45 almost as much. Maybe better as it's easier to hide. Neither gun will penetrate very much, which is safer.

    Three questions:

    1. What is your favorite home defense weapon?

    2. Have you ever had to use one in a home defense situation?

    3. Have you ever known anyone who as used one in a home defense situation?
     
  10. uglydog

    uglydog Super Member

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    To answer Logjam's questions:
    1) It depends. For a static defense, a shotgun would be the number one choice though I would not feel handicapped with my Camp Rifle with its 15 round clip. If I am checking on "that bump in the night", I prefer a handgun, namely my .45 ACP Springfield wide body with 12 round clip. The handgun is much less likely to get taken away while taking a corner and is still very usable with one hand when reaching for light switches or door knobs.
    2) Sort of. I have found intruders in my home on two different occasion. Neither time was shooting necessary though an obvious resolve to do so and strong command voice was a major reason. I'm sure the one would have attacked if the least sign of indecision would have been shown. As a police officer, I have been involved in 3 shootings while conducting building searches. I guess that isn't a home defense situation; in fact, I guess one could argue I might have been the intruder!!!
    3) I personally know only one who has been involved in a self defense shooting but have met several after the fact.
    A 22LR can and does do a good job of killing but, as pointed out, isn't noted for quickly stopping a serious attack. If it is all one has then you have to make do, but I would prefer something better suited. That is why I often suggest a 9mm or .38 Special for self defence. Ammo is fairly inexpensive and recoil is such that it is not unpleasant to shoot them. This same reasoning applies to the .223 and 7.62x39 as surplus ammo is inexpensive and readily available. As you pointed out, shoot whatever your choice as much as possible. In stressful situations one's abilities take a dramatic turn for the worse and if your skills are marginal on the range, they will be be dismal at best when needed.
    Also, as to your mentioning a warning shot; that is generally considered to be a use of deadly force and is held to the same standard as if you were to shoot at the intruder. By shooting into the ground or air, you are admitting that the threat of imminent danger is not present and you could be charged with various crimes up to and including attempted murder. Granted, this may depend on the jurisdiction, the prosecutor, and/or the public opinion of the moment but it is something to consider.
     
  11. Logjam

    Logjam Super Member

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    Ug Dog:

    I had never considered the ramifications of the warning shot as you explained. My thought was that it'd communicate to the intruder that you were armed and meant business. It'd give him an excuse to vacate.

    But I understand that the warning shot may be considered and indication that deadly force was not necessary; and therefore considered and sign that shooting wasn't needed at all.

    It's funny how our courts work, isn't it?!

    I have never had to shoot a burgler. I was, however; burglarized six times. I've sense moved from that neighborhood. I've also had five friends or accquaintances murdered (in Vallejo, CA) so I know that it's not just pie in the sky to sometimes need a self defense weapon.

    Now I live in Central Oregon, where crime is unusual. It's easy to get a conceiled weapons permit, but I don't have one. The only time I carry now is when I'm in my camper. In Oregon it's legal to carry in your camper as it's considered your domicile. That's from the local sheriff.

    One of my favorite guns to carry is a Makarov. It's never jammed and it shoots straight, and pretty hard, I think. It's also accurate.

    I spent 30 years in the military (active and reserve), always in combat arms, so I've shot a zillion rounds from all kinds of weapons, including an A-4 Skyhawk.
     
  12. EasternBloc

    EasternBloc Member

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    Re: re: what for home defense and just fun shooting

    A-4 Skyhawk, now there is an interesting home defense Weapon :lol:

    My take on Home defense. You need to first decide what is most important to you. Do you really have a home defense concern or do you really want a shooter that you can tell the wife "hey honey its to protect us.....really"?

    For home defense, I have to agree with huntswithdogs about using the 12ga. I bought the HK FABARM FP6 Carbon. Put a pistol grip on it and a forward rail on the grip for a light. You don't need a warning shot, just pump that action and any criminal is going to know that sound and freeze. This is what sits next to my bed at night and is backed up by my Springfield XD 357 with a light that I carry.

    Whatever you use, you need a rail to mount a light. You need to be prepared for a night-time defense situation. Remember, you only want to use deadly force if neccessary and a high-power tactical light will not only startle and degrade night vision of an attacker. Also, a laser can go a long way as a deterrent and when properly sighted in makes a great night-time quick reaction tool.

    As for the Storm, I have a Beretta CX4 in 9mm. I love the gun. From a home defense perspective it is great to use at night equiped with a light and a Laser on it's tri-rail system. It is also a fun fun gun to shoot, just make sure you search for some High-cap mags.

    I worry about the .223 from an AR-15 or an AK-47 round. I know the walls in an apartment or modern house are thin. You are responsible for what you hit if you miss. Make no mistake about that, if you kill a neighbor's child by accident, you not only need to live with that for the rest of your life, you will also face massive criminal and civil penalties and lawsuits.

    Of course at one time I thought my dog, a lab/rotti mix, would be my first line of defense, but unless he is going to lick an intruder to death, I better be armed.
     
  13. The_Cook

    The_Cook Super Member

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    I know this is an old post but here is my two cents

    If anyone has the abbility to make and market my idea go for it.

    Basically I think a compact metal tube with a shotgun action would make a good non-lethal device for home defence. Call it the "WRACKER" or something like that. I think the sound of a pump shotgun being wracked :shock: is enough to make an intruder turn tail. if it isn't the handy baseball grip on the other end of the thing would make it a good cudgle :D
     
  14. gwp4ever

    gwp4ever Super Member

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    Re: re: what for home defense and just fun shooting

    Sounds like it would be perfect for you to stick up your corn hole.
     
  15. mike .308

    mike .308 Well-Known Member

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    An 870 youth 20 guage with inproved cylinder and buckshot.
     
  16. grimel

    grimel Well-Known Member

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    some reliable 223 carbine (AR15 kept clean from a good maker is fine) loaded with 55gr JHP or Vmax. Penetrates less than most pistol rounds in homes and per the Army studies has the fight stopping capability of the 12ga w/ buckshot. All that in a lighter, friendlier package. What's not to like?
     
  17. Finch

    Finch Member

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    Re: re: what for home defense and just fun shooting

    I don't know much about the .223, but I have shot a few buddies ar-15's. I dont think there is any way that tiny bullet can hit anywhere near as hard as my Mossberg with 00Buck.

    If I had to choose, I'd much rather get shot with a .223. That's why I have the 00 for the uninvited guests.
     
  18. GunRunner

    GunRunner Member

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    You could go to the "a 22 in the hand is better than a 45 at home), but why not just hit the guy with some bird shot. It's a lot less complicated than shooting a rifle or a pistol. The chances of actually killing them are significantly lowered if it's at a distance, which is better when the cops show up. I would much rather have a mossberg 500 with some #7 1/2 shot loaded then a m4 carbine with a tactical setup.
    Plus, which is more intimidating? The sound of the m4 bolt, or a shotgun shackle?

    I think we all know that people can be killed with just about anything, but sometimes home defence isn't about killing someone. It's often about stoping someone, detering them, or putting them "out of commission."
     
  19. vashooter

    vashooter Well-Known Member

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    Old post- new reply. :)
    First off- for home defense the scattergun fans are right- nothing beats a short barreled 12 gauge with large shot in it. Period. No over penetration, plenty effective, non-critical aiming, and has that psychological "oh crap!" effect.

    If you want a pistol, get a 9mm or larger caliber and load it with high quality hollow points - Hornady's TAP line is good (uses low flash powder). But pistols require practice, practice, practice and a much keener situational awareness in a home defense situation. You'd have to make sure your shot direction wouldn't possibly zip a round into your children's room across the hall if you missed for example. That kind of thought process is very hard to hold onto during combat- most people would just bang away when the adreneline is rushing. There are frangible home defense rounds now, but you still have to be extra sharp in aim and thought.

    To the yahoo who suggested a 22LR for home defense- have fun wrestling with the assailant after you pop him with your plinker. Yup- the 22LR can kill- and it can kill instantly with a head shot or a heart shot, but most of the time it will either zip through or just not do much damage. Certainly not enough to put the bad guy down fast. It's been well documented in police/mortuary files that 22's have an odd habbit of killing people a day or two after taking one in the chest. For the first day or so the person is doing fine, and can even function fine- but then they keel over suddenly.
    For my peace of mind, I'll take a 12ga (or even 20ga).
     
  20. jeepinjakear15

    jeepinjakear15 Member

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    Gunrunner if you are gonna shoot someone you better kill them leave a body not a witness. When the guy shows up in court with a wheel chair it is all over.