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243 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just visiting here to tell about our
12GA From Hell videos on Youtube, and a
little info about our ongoing work. If you
have questions please ask. Here is pic of our
12GA FH case on the right. We made case
by putting 12ga size rim on BMG brass.
I also have developed 8ga FH, 28ga FH,
and my two cases the 585HE and
the most powerful 700HE....Ed Hubel

The videos are called--
Grandpa's First Shot-

Grandpa's Cannon-


243 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Here is picture of my BMG size action chambered for
my 700HE Belted 3.87" long case. It has fired loads
of 1000gr at over 3200 fps. It has internal type ported
brake, thick pad, weighs 27 lbs.Ed


243 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Here is picture of my NEF 12GA FH as it is now.
I got tired of the shortbarrel and added on a
foot, with a sleeve and with rifling that I lined
up with original rifling. I test our 3.85" case,
the 3.5" RMC brass case. 3.5" plastic cases.

Second picture is a heavy barreled NEF 10ga
that has long barre from factory and we are going
to ream it out for an 8ga. We have 8ga loads tested
in an Enfield I redid with heavy barrel in 8ga.Ed


243 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Shot the NEF 8GA FH. That is the heavy barrel NEF
that was a 10ga.. I bored it out to 8ga and chambered
it for the heavy duty 8ga case. 770gr at 2200 out of
29" barrel. End of barrel has internal brake with 24
porting holes and with weighted thumbhole stock,
it handles recoil easy.Will have picture soon.Ed

243 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Here is my 12GA FH Savage 210 with thumbhole
stock, I put on in place of first one that cracked.
Along with weight and heavy barrel handles recoil
great. It is a Boyd and came inleted for Savage
112, and I re-did inleting to fit 210 and
heavy barrel,and got rid of monte carlo


243 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
We havw been testing rifle powders we can use in shotgun and
other large diameter cases that will ignite reliably with
shotgun and rifle primers. Two we are using last couple years
are IMR4759 and 4227. Other rifle powders had to have small amount
of shotgun,10-15gr, powder for a starter powder under the main charge.
But now we have founf the new RE-17 that works without starter powders
and it is better than the other two.Following is a starter powder load
that a few guys on AR forun are doing with heavy slugs.

.Heavy brass slug testing by RIP on AR.-----
RIP'S components laid out in first picture-
15gr Blue Dot starter, thin plastic separator,
230gr HBMG, thin plastic under slug,
and 1087gr brass slug; in a RMC 3.5" turned
brass case, fired in his great looking,
braked NEF 12ga FH Ultra. It got him
1812 fps average. Barrel and brake
are 27" total length. Great work. Ed

Here is picture of anothers NEF Ultra 12ga FH with a brake he built.
And 4th picture is an 1887 WIN levergun replica, I put heavy barrel on
for slug testing.Ed


243 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Here is picture of a NEF breach barrel section that I threaded
monoblock style for a .585" cal barrel, to make a NEF 585HE.
It goes on a SB2 10-12ga alloy, super strong frame. Its
OD is 1.210" and the barrel that screws into it will be tapered
to match contour and it will be 1.00" at muzzle, at 32" long.
I know these are strong enough as my 8GA FH testing shows..
Later will do couple more with heavy barrels for 28GA FH, etc,
as all the break action 28 gauges I've looked at have too
thin of muzzles for our slower, powder loads.I'll have 3 of these
that fit one SB2 frame I have here.This makes switch barrels
big power fun.Ed.


243 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Here is pic of the NEF with a 585 barrel mono-blocked
in with my 585HE case in chamber, Works great.
Loads with 650 gr at 2400 and 750 gr at 2200, the cases
come out with my fingers.There's no extractor yet, just a
a coned breech for my hairy belted 585HE cartridge.
Stronger loads I pryed case out with fingernail.
I have that cartridge now in 4 guns, Enfield, Ruger 77,
BBK02, and this NEF.Ed


243 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Also we 've been working on something for a
a four bore and bigger. Making progress,
another couple months maybe 4 bore/ga will fire.Just have a
chunk of shaft on front to simulate barrel to
get a stock fit. Got to profile barrel, thread barrel,
fit in hammer,trigger, couple bottom bolts into action,
design and mount extractor.. some springs, firing pin, etc.
May change/lengthen fulcrum on lever so it doesn't have to
move so far. Lever is held closed by little feramic magnet
in grip. Checking on different shapes for lever. When breach is
lowered the lever stays open due to weight of breach
block. Block moves smooth, no rattling around.
Guys-,I need some Vulcan 50cal V-50 thumbhole laminated stocks.
If there are any used extra ones around let me know.
This way of doing a FB in one piece thumbhole stock will work
for 12GA FH with an action about a 1/4" narrower.ED


243 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Here is picture of 4bore/ga action with lever open and
breach down.You see bottom of breach block.The action
and barrel will be held in stock with 2 bolts into bottom
of action one bolt in barrel ahead of action and a recoil
barrel ring in front end of stock. Didn't have to add
any recoil lugs, as the wide back of the action is
the recoil lug. This is now called the Hubel Falling
Block Action. Second picture is of the 4bore cases
and 2000gr slugs, with 20mm case I make 4bore/ga cases
from and the 30-06 for comparison.Ed


243 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Guys been testing BPI sabots with different
components in plastic cases. Bpi sabot with
theXTP S&W slugs ar ea little loose fit, so it is
easier to get higher velocities if you can use good seals.
Here is picture of the 12ga wad column using two
BPI BPGS seals, one Flexseal, cork, and sabot. Bret in
MN has, in a long heavy rifled barreled Savage
like mine, gotten 28-3000 fps with a 500 gr XTP bullet
in the sabot with a 3.5" plastic case. And it extracts
ok with the Savage bolt action extractor.
He is using slow shotgun powder, Alliant Steel.I can't
get that high in my NEF 12GA FH and make the
extractor work with the Alliant Steel powder loads.
The NEF handles pressures fine, just doesn't extract
like a bolt action Savage 210. Using RE17 without cork,
I get 28-2900, with max of much slower RE17 with 420gr
slug in the sabot, in NEF The case shown was fired with the
RE17 load like that....Ed


243 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Here is picture of NEF I've set up with my
700H 3.25" belted case to show the versatility
of NEFs and my 700. The 700 cal barrel monoblocked
like I did the 585HE. I put monblocked barrel on
the same SB2 frame that I have my 12GA FH on as
it has the beefed up firing pin for big primers
use in our 12GA FH case and in my 700H case.

Other projects coming.I found a heavy 16ga barrel
to monoblock in one to test the 16GA FH cartridge
I made. It is the 3.5" brass case mentioned
earlier in the thread.

Also a bunch of us are going to take 500 S&W
NEFs and put my 499 HE case in them, with just a
chamber job. It is a case that will get the zip
in 500gr slugs. NEFs are great guns to experiment
with and along with reasonable costs, we don't
have to worry about case length. Ed


206 Posts
Have you ever tried to hunt with any of these guns? It looks like the 4 bore would really be something to take to africa, as would the 700 HE.


243 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Guys have hunted with the hairy 12ga loads
we have tested in 3.5" cases. Soon some will hunt with
long case and a bunch of guns in 700HE will hunt
in a while as they get built in next year or so.

Here is picture of a falling block a guy on Weaponsforum
has picked up to finish. The fellow who started building
it laid it aside for awhile and the new guy is going to finish
in BMG. It has 50cal bbl on it. Looks easily big enough
for 12ga,10ga,8ga, my 700s. The lever on left is cocking
mechanism, The tube in back is a firing striker and spring
and it hits the hammer block you see in the back of the
breach block, which hits firing pin ahead of it in breach.
It is the the only one like it. They've put a lot of work
into it, especially the hammer block striker setup.Ed


243 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
In related big bore work we got a Montana Rifle
Co, PH action setup in my 700H 3.25" case. Fired
test load of 825gr at 3000 fps. This was just one
test load. Normal max loads are 825gr at 2850 and
1000gr at 2700.Hunting loads 24-2500, First PH fired
outside the factory.It is in first picture.
PH will work for any big case and my 585HE.And
if anyone looking at big actions for 12ga FH,
here is picture of MRC PH with a 3.5" 12ga case
partly into action. The PH cam be used for 12ga with
action and rails opened like I did my 700H in Enfield.
And a little changing on the bolt face and extractor
In 12 ga it still would have 60% of front lugs contacting
and you'd add bearing lug surface to bolt handle base so
it would handle same pressures as Savage 210.
And 3.5" with average length 12ga slug would feed from the
magazine. Our longer case would work with port opened
and some mag work. Ed


243 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Got single stack mag figured out for 12GA FH and
my 700H 3.25 in PH. I fit a bolt action 12ga
box mag and its follower and spring
inside the PH mag box. Easy to fit in metal box,
and permanently mounted to metal and floorplate.
Holds 2 down. That way feed lips already a working
design. And opened back of 12ga box for longer case
like I did with my 700 in Savage 210. Also work
for anyone doing a PH in 12ga FH if they aren't
loaded too long or with 3.5" RMC cases. Using most
cast 12ga bullets like Dixies, the overall length with
3.5 brass is 3.9" and fits 4.05" box ok. Here is picture
PH from bottom showing its big size.You can see in pic
there still is room to make box longer yet.
And the feed port can be longer.Montana Rifle has
great action here with lots off room and strength.Ed


243 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I got barrel on the 4ga/bore falling block gun.
Barrel 32" long, 1.87" breech, gun is 27 lbs.
Notice breech block is down and huge hole in barrel.
Maybe shoulder cannon is the right term for it.
It is all inleted into thumbhole laminated Vulcan
50 cal stock, of which I need more, if anyone
knows where there are any. 4 bore cases shown,
next to the gun, 2 with 2000gr slugs,
and I'll use a big ammomaster press for them..Ed


243 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Here is a picture of the front end of the 4bore,
showing a 2000gr slug protuding out. Simulating
stop action photo work, as if anyone wwould be brave
enough to put a camera out in front of it
when it fired. Will have it firing by fall.
I plan on using hollowbase lead slugs of
about 1600gr, as it is a smoothbore. Ed


243 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
got 3" chambered 12ga set up to test loads with RE-17.
Many guys want loads for 3" chambered slug barrels as they
come from the factory., So I put extra 24" Savage barrel I had
on a Mauser GEHA bolt action. Rifled Savage barrel is modern
steel with .93" muzzle diameter. Original barrel on the GEHA
was only .82" at muzzle. I added an extra rear bolt locking lug
onto the Mauser bolt. Using up stuff to make test gun.

Any modern steel slug barrel, whether on bolt, autoloading,
pump, or break action gun with same muzzle diameter will handle
these RE-17 loads. Max loads were all 115gr of RE-17 in plastic
3" cases, all with seals and cushion wads. Can't get no more under
the seals, cushions and slugs in 3". Which is why I like 3.5"
chambers. With 437 gr Brenekkee and 420 gr in BPI sabot got
over 1900. With 520gr Lyman in shot cup 1850. With 600gr Dixie
got 1800. With 870 gr hard lead got 1600. This is 24" barrel,
so longer barrels will get more. In comparison to IMR4227 loads,
these are about the same speed as using 90gr of 4227. But this
powder is so much easier on cases and guns, with about .004"
less base cup expansion. It works great in 3" and really gets the
speed in 3.5" cases, as in 3.5" cases,as seal/wads about same,
extra length for powder. The 870gr load is max peak pressure of
16,000 psi. Muzzle pressure is about 3500-4000 psi.
I'll have pic of the Mauser in few days.ED

243 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Here is picture of my 695 Mossberg bolt action.
It is 28ga FH, a 3.25" long brass case. Was a
12ga with light barrel. I also have a heavy 12ga
barrel chambered for 3.5" cases and a .500" barrel
for my 499HE a real long brass case. Also I am
doing my 499HE in a NEF. You can get a NEF with
MMouse 500S&W and run my reamer in and get real
power.The 395,495,595 actions will work also,
as they like the 695 have double bolt lugs
and a loading port that can be lengthened.
And they have a nice style...Ed

1 - 20 of 250 Posts