.22LR ammo

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by The_Cook, Sep 3, 2005.

  1. The_Cook

    The_Cook Guest

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    I'm an avid fan of the .22LR I inherited a marlin 60 just two months ago and have come to the realization that not all .22lr ammo is made the same. Remington and Fedral seem to make the most consistant.

    I have also slowly been collecting reloading equipment. So far I have a die set, calipers, and a good scale.

    I've been playing with the calipers mostly and now am wondering how would I go about finding out what the optimal overall cartridge length for my marlin should be, and how would I go about figuering out?

    Also I know .22lr is a rimfire cartridge, but I've also heard rumors that there is a way to reload them. Has anyone heard anything?

    Lastly, what .22lr ammo do you like?
     
  2. wired

    wired Guest

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    I don't see why or how anybody could reload .22LR, with as cheap and plentiful as it is. You would't be able to reuse the brass, I wouldn't think.

    I like the old Remington HP that's about $10 for a box of 525, and I've had good luck with PMC Sidewinders.
     

  3. The_Cook

    The_Cook Guest

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    PMC sidewinders? I tried a brick of those and according to my records I ran into 15% duds and also ejection issues. Also after they are fired they smelled like superglue :? But the remingtons are cool beans =) About the reloading thing i only ask because there is an old guy at my range that swears up and down that the American Indians used to do it back in the day. Would be nice to make some custom match loads for the .22lr
     
  4. wired

    wired Guest

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    Yeah, those sidewinders have a funny smell to them. I didn't have any problems with them because my .22 rifle is a bolt action. Every rifle likes something different. You asked, so I told.
     
  5. uglydog

    uglydog Super Member

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    As to the Indians reloading rimfire ammo, it was of greater caliber than .22, most often .44 for the Henry/Volcanic rimfire rifles and .56 for the Spencer rifle and used blackpowder rather than smokeless. There were many others but those were popular. The sulphur from match heads was soaked off, added to other substances I can't remember off hand, and then spun by hand in an attempt to get the new "priming mixture" into the unused portions of the rim. This was a rather crude and often unsuccessful try but when ammo is not available in any other fashion one makes do as best as possible. I heard of a device from Australia that would spin the case to push the primer into the rim but have never seen one. It wasn't very popular as the price of 22LR ammo is still pretty cheap, even over there. In addition, I am not aware of any priming material nor appropriate powders for sale to the public available for rimfires. I am also curious where you got "reloading dies" for the 22LR? I haven't heard of such a thing let alone seen one though I haven't checked out the custom die makers in a while. I have seen dies for a 17 rimfire that is similar to the 17 Mach II but used unfired cases. I also think you may have trouble finding appropriate bullets as the 22 short, long and LR use a "butt healed" type of bullet that is rather different than the typical bullets used in other 22 caliber guns, especially the centerfires. Again, I haven't seen these bullets offered on the open market though there are custom mold makers who would be glad to make one for you, for a price.
    With what is on the market and the effort one would have to go through even if reloading rimfires is possible, it would be easier and more cost effective to find a suitable round already made. Federal, Eley, PMC, even Wolf, as well as others produce very accurate 22LR target loads. With a little seaching you should find what you are looking for.
     
  6. The_Cook

    The_Cook Guest

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    My bad, the reloading dies aren't for the .22lr, they are for the 30-06 I bought it hasn't come in yet, but I'm sitting on them. Can't wait to start reloading.

    So no dice on the reloading of .22lr?

    I have an interesting idea. If REALLY want to reload the .22lr would it be possible for me to pull the bullet from an unfired case, dump the powder, stick new powder in and also new bullet? Do you guys think IYO that there would be any appreciable difference?
     
  7. wired

    wired Guest

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    You can try if you want to. Let me know when you go to the range to try it out so I can be as far away as possible. Have fun reloading the -06, though. That is definately a practical application of reloading.
     
  8. uglydog

    uglydog Super Member

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    I second wired's suggestion, let me know where and when you're going to the range so I'll not be there. Powder is not powder and what is safe for a 22LR may not be safe to use in another cartridge and vice versa. The bullet used in the 22 LR is unique to it also so another .22" bullet will likely not work as desired. Before you start to reload, read a good reloading manual until you understand what it is saying and not what you think it says. Help from an experienced reloader is another good idea for a first timer.
     
  9. 1gsplover

    1gsplover Super Member

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    :) That info on the Indians reloading rimfires was mighty interesting. Anything available with more detail or annecdotes? thanks///olde 8) pharte///
     
  10. uglydog

    uglydog Super Member

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    I told everything I know of the old way of reloading rimfire cartridges. I think I got that info from a paragraph in an article by Mike Venturino, Sam Fadala, or Phil Spangenburger(sp) though it could be from a historical tome as I read enough of them. It was a while back so I am not certain it was any of them for sure. I also seem to recall some talk of this at a "buckskinner rendezvous" but didn't pay it no mind at the time as I thought the person didn't know what they were talking about. When I read the paragraph later, I realized I was the idiot. If there are any rendezvous events in your area, check them out. You may get a lead on the info you are looking for and in any event, there are a number of interesting tidbits of information as well as characters.
     
  11. Maser

    Maser Super Member

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    well iv read in some of those homemade ammo books that u can reload a .22 rimfire case by using a punch to take the dent out of the rim from the firing pin n then u take ur homemade priming mix n wet it to make it into a paste n then use a tiny paintbrush n brush it around the bottom n into the inside of the rim n then let it dry n then reload it like u would any other centerfire case

    my favorite .22 lr ammo is the .22 sss (60 grain bullet)
     
  12. The_Cook

    The_Cook Guest

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    homemade priming mix?

    What is in a primer in the first place?

    Can I safely crack a primer cap open and use the material inside mixed with everclear to make a paste?

    Better question, Can I safely crack a primer open????
     
  13. Maser

    Maser Super Member

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    well i hope i dont get into any trouble from the mods or admins of this site but i do have lots of experience with both low n high explosives n when it comes to primers theyr loaded with a primary high explosive friction sensitive charge such as murcury fulminate but when it comes to .22 rimfire cases they actualy add a small amount of trinitrotoluene (TNT) to the priming mix to give it an extra kick n also to ensure that the nitrocellulose in the smokeless powder ignites properly but if u ask me i wouldnt go fooling around with trying to break out loaded primers cuz even tho its a real tiny pop if they do explode they will throw tiny metal particles that can hit u in the eye but hey if u wanna try it what i recommend is that u go to a gun shop n buy some 209 shot gun primers n then soaked em in pure alcohol or ur everclear which is like 95% i think n keep em soaking until the aclcohol evaporates n what ul have left is the priming mix on the bottom so then all u would have to do is wet the mix again to make it into a paste n then brush it inside the rim of the .22 case
     
  14. uglydog

    uglydog Super Member

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    I wish the DIY writers would actually try what they write but I guess they are too busy writing suppositions so they can fleece others.
    A rimfire cartridge's brass is of a very weak alloy which is necessary for the firing pin to ignite the primer material. Reusing the case would not be a good idea as the old firing pin strike would be even weaker and could lead to a case failure which rimfires are not really designed to protect aginst. From a conversation I had with a ballistician from one of the Big Three civilian ammo manufacturers, this was a serious flaw with the reloading set from Australia I mentioned earlier. I also don't see how one could punch the old mark out, the case mouth is rather narrow and the angle to it is rather steep.
    As I've mentioned many other times, the bullet shape for the 22LR is very different than anything else on the market though I guess a custom mold could be made though the price may be rather steep.
    Thirdly, I don't know if there is a powder that can be safely used to reload a 22LR, my acquaintance said their powder is not available in canister form. That doesn't mean there isn't a powder that can be used, just that the one they use isn't distributed to the public.
    I also don't know of any dies available for the 22LR though Hornady will make custom dies; prices start at $80.
    Lastly, the priming mixture and application would be a problem. Rimfire priming material is mostly potassium chlorate with small amouts of antimony sulfide, copper sulfo-cyanide, and traces amounts of other items. The largest single component (45%) is crushed glass to create the friction to ignite the priming material. TNT has not been used in rimfires as it creates too high of pressures. TNT was used in rifle primers but they were phased out of usage of those was back around 1960.
    Applying the priming mixture is not likely possible with a brush as it is too thick to reach into the rim. Manufacturers have to liquify the compound and spin it rather quickly to do so.
    Seeing all of this, one can understand why reloading rimfires is not done and am surprised they can sell 22 ammo so cheaply.
     
  15. wired

    wired Guest

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    I second UD on this one. Save the everclear for killing brain cells. Screwing with the primers and powders is bad mojo. The brass is very thin and weak, which wouldn't lead to good reloading. Just find the ammo that works best for you and stick with it.
     
  16. Maser

    Maser Super Member

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    well i think The_Cook created this thread not to really learn how to reload em but jus to find out if its true that u can lol anyways in the time it takes to actually reload 1 cartridge u coulda already went n bought a box of 550 rounds at wal mart for only 7 bucks
     
  17. The_Cook

    The_Cook Guest

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    Thank you Maser that was the initial intent of the thread, then it became a what if and can you. I've gained a better understanding of what it takes to make a .22lr than what I have found on the internet. Thank you everyone for the helpfull input :D
     
  18. gwp4ever

    gwp4ever Guest

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    Is this "Cook" guy for real? What a fukkin idiot.
     
  19. uglydog

    uglydog Super Member

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    Lighten up gwp, it is not uncommon for some people to become overly drawn in to the possibilities of an idea when they are rather naive in the subject. Boyish enthusiasm should not be stifled, only directed. These actions are sometines hard on grizzled veterans of the range, we have settled into our idiosyncracies and don't like having our world shaken, let alone stirred. The asking of questions and (hopefully) correct, reasonable, and insightful replies help build the new person's knowledge of what is or isn't possible, practical, and/or reasonable. It is good one asks questions and waits for answers before attempting a potentially dangerous or hazardous endeavor rather than jumping off into experimenting on their own.
     
  20. Maser

    Maser Super Member

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    hey gwp ease up on the cussin cuz im sure some kids come here also :x