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Discussion in 'Rifle Talk' started by Reid, Jun 15, 2005.
Anyone have any opinions about this caliber. What loads do you recomend? How does it work on game?
If all you're going to use it for is whitetails, its overkill, and it's a pretty poor choice. For elk in timber or black bears, it's a good choice. For brown bears, you're undergunned.
It's new enough that there isn't much handload info available yet. The factory loaded ammo I've seen is pretty short-range stuff; mostly 200 grain bullets at about 2700 fps. That's a pretty low sectional density in a .35 cal. A 220 grain in a .35 is about the same as a 165 grain in a .30
If you already have a safe full of rifles and want to add another in a new caliber, go for it. Understand that you may own an orphan in a few years, though. If this is your first centerfire rifle, get a .30-'06 or a .308 and never look back.
Reid the 350 rem mag is about identical to the 35 Whelen.The 350 rem mag is a short action round and the 35 Whelen is a long round.There is only 1 rifle that makes the 350 rem mag that I know of and only a couple making the 35 Whelen.The 35 Whelen started life as a necked up 30/06 case in 1922 for african game and has taken all dangerous game.Reference "Pet Loads" by Ken Waters.The 35 cal bullets offer ranges from 180 gr to 300 gr.The 250 gr bullets in the 350 mag shoots about 2480 fps.The 35 Whelen shoots at about 2500 fps.Almost identical.I can find 35 Whelen ammo at 2 different stores but I reload so ammo is not critical for me.350 rem mag will be harder to find.I have used a 35 rem for many many years and it's killing ability is great,the 35 cal bullets carry alot of momentum and almost always shoots through animals with premium bullets.The 35 cal bullets offer less sectional denisty than 338 bullets but slow moving big bullets carry momentum that smaller bullets don't.Thats why the 45acp is preferred over faster handgun rounds.The velocity figures I gave is from an 18 inch barrell in the 350 rem mag and 22 inch for 35 Whelen.I have a 24 inch barrell on my 35 Whelen so the velocitys will be slightly higher.Would I hunt brown bears with the 350 rem mag or 35 Whelen?The 35 Whelen has taked cape buffalo and other dangerous game in africa since 1922 and brown bears arn't any tougher than cape buffalo,I don't know,a 250 gr bullet at 2500 fps may do the deed quite well,I'm not sure,luv2safari has used a 35 Whelen in Africa for many years with great sucess,I'll let him comment on that.When I was starred down by a grizzly about 15 years ago I thought a howitzer was too small.Drop-Shot
I looked at my reloading manuals last nite and found data for this cartridge in all of them. Loads were for 180 to 300 grain bullets. This round came around originally in 1965 on the heels of the Win 358. Neither one ever had a huge following and were dicontinued soon. The original was produced in the Rem 600,which carries a close likeness to the newer rifle.
Like Dropshot stated earlier,the 35 caliber rounds are entirely underrated in my estimation. I've shot the 35 Rem in various guns,Contender pistol,lever action Marlins and a Savage pump,and have found them to be extremely accurate.A friend has a 35 Whelen in a Rem and shoots anything from groundhogs to bear with it. He laughingly calls it his poor mans Magnum!
As mentioned, the 350 mag is basically a short action version of the 35 Whelan. It has been around for a few years but never was very poular. A major reason had to do with the rifles it was chambered in, the Remington 600 and 660, as they were down right ugly and the muzzle blast from the short barrels (commonly 18.5"-20") was horrendous. I had a 660 briefly but never used it on game. Ammo at that time was nearly non-existant and ran $20+ a box when found. In comparison a box of 30/06 was in the $9 range at the time though to day the 350 mag ammo is still around $25. The cartridge is adequate for all game in North America with the right bullet and placement though I would feel more comfortable with something larger for the big bears. The 200 grain bullets are meant for deer sized game while the 250 grain ones would be fine for game up to elk size. I would prefer a stoutly constructed bullet like a Partition or Grand Slam for moose and big bears. I've been looking at the Remington Guide Guns in $350. They look kind of cool with the laminate stock and if the price drops a bit more I may have look at makng a trade.
Re: re: .350 Remington Magnum
My apologies.... HWD is quite correct.
I saw an article on the "new" Remington 673 rifle (VERY much like the old 600) in Shooting Times a few months back, where they listed the .350 Rem Mag as one of the available calibers. I evidently didn't read it carefully, because I missed the fact that the .350 Rem Mag is an old cartridge. Or, maybe my memory is just going to pot....
Anyhow, in that article, they mentioned the lack of variety in factory loaded ammo, and that most of what was commonly available was somewhat less than the '06 in terms of muzzle energy. I checked my 2003 Winchester and 2002 Hodgdon reloading data books, and neither one listed the cartridge - just the .35 Rem.
Yesterday,I checked the Hodgon wesite and didn't find a listing for it. Last nite,I looked in my Nosler,Hodgon(1993) and 2 different Hornady books and there they were. I rechecked myself this morning on the website,thought I might have just missed it and IT AIN'T THERE. Wonder why ??
wwb,the Nosler 5th edition lists the 350 Remington mag,and impressive velocitys.If the velocitys listed could be achieved, it would produce more muzzel energy than the 220 gr 30/06 by a good bit.The problem I have found is owning a chronograph I can't achieve the velocitys listed in most cases.The 250 gr velocitys are 2571 listed.That would give well over 3400 ft lbs,the 220 gr 308 semi-spitzer nosler is listed at a little over 2500 fps=3050 ft lbs of muzzle energy.Those figures is based on achieving the listed velocitys,I have not had good success in getting the velocitys listed in most books on any cartridge,so this is all expected numbers and may not be actual.On paper the 35 cal is not impressive but I have seen the 35 cal on game and it kills impressively.I most likely not get the 350 rem mag but will jump on the 35 Whelen.Drop-Shot
Hey guys,I have a question.How do we figure ballistic coeffeciant for down range energy?I looked at the Nosler reloading manual and the 35 cal bullets have a lower coeffeciant than most 30 caliber bullets,but some of the 357 hand gun bullets have better coeffeciant than the 240 gr 44 mag,anyone would choose the 44 mag over the 357 mag.Is ballistic coeffeciant the tell all number?Drop-Shot
Drop Shot - The ballistic coeffient is a combination of sectional density (caliber & bullet weight) and bullet shape.
The higher the number, the better the bullet carries at longer ranges. A bullet with a low ballistic coefficient slows down quickly once it's out of the barrel.
I'll look around at home and see if I kind find the formula. Rick Jamison,of Shooting Times Magazine,has shown it a number of times in his articles. I know it deals with velosity,energy and such.Add a couple of numbers and devide the rest and there it is. Hell I just load and shoot!!! I ain't no scientist!
HWD me neither but the numbers don't always tell the whole story.The 45acp has a low coeffecient and it's the leader in self defense,the 44 mag 240 gr hp nosler has lower coeffecient than alot of lesser calibers and no insightfull person would ever take a lesser caliber to hunt elk or bear with.A writer in Field & Stream was asked a question,why do the 35 rem out kill most all guns in our camp?The writer said,"It's just so,I can't explain by numbers why,but It's just so" The numbers on the 45/70 are horrible but look at what that cartridge can do.As a society we try to quantify everything and especially in shooting.In the 40's and 50's we didn't asign a number other than velocity,so we didn't worry about things we didn't know of and picked a cartridge according to our preferance and killed anything we wanted to kill.Now with all these numbers, ballistic coeffecient,standerd deviation,secional density we get befuddled and pick what "experts" call a perfect cartridge.I'm going to make it my goal,before death, I want to understand all those numbers and what it means to each cartridge.WWB or HWD if you know of a book or website or anything that would help me reach that goal then please let me know.I'm determind to fully understand those areas of bullets and cartridges.Drop-Shot
Ruger is making a limited run of .350 Rem. Mags. in their Model 77. I just picked one up while I could. Now the fun begins with load development. But first a new trigger.
Let us know what happens! Congrats on the purchase,also! I'd be interested in the recoil from it. I kinda shy away from to much of it because of a UKBjjhk ,see a flinch,all I had to do was think about getting kicked and there it was!
Oh, Welcome to our crowd!
The same thing goes for the OLE THUTTY-THUTTY. Don't look like much on paper, but dang the stuff that's been killed with it!
PS....like I said earlier,just load 'er up and shoot!
A few references on ballistic coefficient and sectional density:
To make a long story real short....
Longer (heavier) streamlined bullets work better at long range than shorter (lighter) flat point or round nose bullets. Duh!!!
And, to HWD....
I still have the Marlin .30-30 that I bought brand new in 1959.... put a whitetail within 125 yards, and it's dinner. The gun has also taken a black bear that dressed at 310. Who says a .30-30 ain't got no power?
Re: re: .350 Remington Magnum
The same people who feel they need a .300 WinMag to take a whitetail. The same people who call the .30-30 "weak" and "obsolete". The same people that refuse to shoot a .243 Win because that's a gun for kids and women.
A buddy of mine hunts deer with a .375 H&H Magnum, just because he can. He scoffs at my .308 Win and calls it a "pop gun" (probably just jokingly, but with some characters, you can never tell).
Reid I have looked at 350 rem mag for some time now but settled on a Remington CDL in 35 Whelen.Look at www.35cal.com and you will find some folks that rave about the 35 cal,I have always heard the 35's were the killingst rounds out there and have seen positive results..I don't plan on over loading my rifle and feel it's not acting responsibly to our sport even though I could,I would recommend staying within the parameters set by those that know about pressures and what it could do.None of the 35's are long range guns and don't carry a high ballistic coeffecient but has penetration and killing ability far beyond the numbers.I could have picked any caliber offered by remington,but I have 2 30/06's,1 of which has taken all 15 elk I have hunted over the years.In fact I have many rifles and just wanted the 35 Whelen.The 350 rem mag would be lighter and just as powerfull as the 35 Whelen with a 18 1/2 inch barrell on the 673.Thats just my view.Drop-Shot
The ONLY reason for the existence of the 350 Rem Mag is to have a short, quick rifle that hits hard at close range. The problem with all these short cased rounds is that they don't take to loading sufficiently heavy (long) bullets. The heavy bullets need to be seated too deeply into the case and powder.
The 350 has been around about 40 years or so and has garnered little following, with good reason. It is highly specialized for short medium bore rifle needs...not a big sales base... The 350 was used in the mid 60's in Africa by a gun writer to take a nice cape buffalo. He had a PH with a 500 NE double rifle standing right behind him, however. :shock: :shock:
I would love to have a custom Savage 99 chambered to this round. I wish my old 99 EG in 300 needed re-barreling. Maybe I should put 5,000 or 6,000 rounds of hot loads through it next week...HMMMMMMMMM... :wink:
Luv2 my goal is to have all 35 cal guns.I have my old 35 remington and some cast bullets to reload with,358 win in a BLR,and now the remington 700 CDL in 35 Whelen.If I could find a used 350 rem mag and a 358 norma mag,I would have all factory 35 cal rifles.I have seen impressive kills with a 35 Whelen and of course my 35 rem,you just can't kill anything any quicker.I have dies,cases and more bullets on the way.Would like to give me ideas at what you load the 35 Whelen at?Powder and bullet size?I know their are alot of older rifles out there and they are a concern for over pressure problems,I am told new 35 Whelens could be loaded hotter than old data in new rifles but I don't want to harm my new rifle.Drop-Shot