Yes...a bit too close...I've shot the 460 Wby, but not the 378. The Lott I shot was years ago and was a custom 1917 Enfield, back when the Lott was a wildcat. It was like having TWO 338 Wins go off at the same time. :!: :twisted: :shock:
OUCH!!! My uncle "collects" Weatherbys and has all the calibers and many of the models except the 338/378 and 338/06 A-Frame. Back when I lived on the farm he would send a rifle or two up with me to "sight in". It was a real hoot to shoot rats and woodchucks with the various guns. It is where I learned shot placement is critical; a hit behind the ribcage would not kill a rat outright, it could still scurry off several feet even after being hit with the 460 and losing half its body!! Rats are tougher than one would think; too bad they don't get to be a couple hundred pounds then there would be a real need for large bore guns and maybe the price of a good double rifle would be reasonable.
:shock: It appears that Remington through EAA may just be bringing us a low priced SXS double rifle...around $600.00. This is not their o/u model 94 in a BBF configuration, but a for real sxs DR. I hear it is built on their 12ga shotgun receiver. 8)
I hope this isn't rumor...but I'm going to be in line for one in 45-70 for my light gun work... :wink:
It's a shame to hear about Remington and EAA. I had an EAA Witness which was a problem child from the get go and an O/U that was poorly finished and poorer construction. Finding a repair center was a pain and required sending the guns to different places. After several trips to the shop, I finally got wise and got rid of the guns. It took a couple more experiences before I broke myself of the "cheap, importer specified gun syndrome". I hope the Remington is better but I'll let others be the guinnea pigs.
My EAA 94 model in BBF configuration is a good shooting gun...12ga over 7X57R...if not a bit crude. I have to say that the metal to metal fit is very good and the stock is gopher puke. I got it to use as my pickup truck gun, and it fits that bill perfectly. It is quite accurate and I bought it NIB at an on line auction for $249.00, including shipping.
It performs as well as many of my aristocrat German combo guns and better than several that I paid 10 to 20 times more money for. :?
I'm glad to hear someone got a decent, inexpensive gun. Hopefully it is a sign of things to come rather than a fluke. I bought a Valmet O/U rifle in 7x57R last year and took a deer with it this fall. I initially had a heck of a time finding ammo, I ended up having two boxes sent to me from a friend in Sweden. Recently, I saw that Sellier and Beloit makes it and have ordered some through my local gun shop. It may take a bit of time but I will get a couple hundred rounds. I now need to find a set of claw foot scope rings and I will be set. Are you reloading your 7x57R and if so, where did you find data? I haven't been able to find any info in the limited searches I've done and will need a starting point soon. I can probably get help from Federal Cartridge and/or Hodgdon but I hate going to those wells too often. Thanks for any help.
First of all, you need to decide on ONE (1) loading, regulate to that load and don't change, unless you want to re-regulate.
You can use regular 7x57 Mauser loadings for the 7x57R, but use only moderate loads...NO MAXIMUM LOADS!!! I would load a 160 gr bullet to about 2450-2500 FPS. A good bet is IMR 4831 ot RL 19. These powders don't run pressures up like faster powders tend to do. I like the Speer Grand Slam 160 for the 7x57...I feel a bullet like the Nosler Partition is a bit too tough and won't expand enough at the lower velocities of the 7x57. The Speer GS is a bit softer, but still a good tough bullet. I've shot some pretty tough animals with Grand Slams and think well of them. 8)
As far as scope mounts for the Valmet...use Valmet's own one piece QD mount; it clamps right onto the dovetail on top of the rear of the barrels. :idea: If you can't find one on the internet, send me a PM. I have two Valmet receivers and a bunch of barrel sets, and 4-5 scope mounts. The Sellier & Bellot 173 gr cutted edge ammo is good ammo for the 7x57R; it's what I use.
Thanks for the advice and offer. I have found a Valmet scope mount but the seller wants more than I wish to pay at this time, $50. I do think the price is somewhat reasonable but he is kind of a skinflint and I was hoping for a lever to jaw him down a bit.
Your advice on reloading data was what I was thinking based on what I've seen for the 8x57 rimmed. The load I have is by Norma and I think it is in the 160-165 gr range. It grouped decently for me at 100 yards, in the 4" range. This is about as good as I get with open sights, actually better than normal. I should have bought a lotto ticket that day instead!! I'll have to try the heavier bullets first, I use 140 gr ones in my 7mm/08. I'll probably use a standard bullet rather than a Grand Slam as my main use will be on deer which I don't think require such a stout bullet.
Thanks again for the advice.
The 140 gr is just right for the short necked 7mm/08. You make good sense about the GS for the 7x57; a Speer Hot Core bullet might be a better choice for deer. I'd use the GS or Nosler Partition for pigs, however.
For some reason the PM did not arrive. I did get the Valmet rings by trading a pair of coyote hides and a promise of a red fox for them. That is an easy trade for me, I do some wild animal control on the side. He wants them to make a pair of end tables and a coffee table. I hope he does this regularly, it would be nice to have another outlet for hides than just the furrier.
:!: The 458 Lott is what the 458Win Mag should have been in the first place! If it had, the 458 Win Mag would never have gotten the bad rap it did, back when it was only a couple of yrs old!
There were many cases of hang fires, duds, and under power ammo not getting the job done, in some of the direst circumstances! The problem was the lack of powder capacity in the 458 Win Mag case, plus the use of a 500 gr bullet! With the powders available to us in those days, the 458 Win Mag, in fact, got some people into a real tight situations.
The fact is, Winchester had a very fine CRF action that could accommodate the full length 375 H&H case, with a more suitable platform for pushing a 500 gr bullet, without having the compress the powder in the too short 458 Win Mag case.
The problem was, the powder would work fine on the factory range where Winchester was testing the new cartridge. However, once the powder was compressed for some amount of time, before it was used, and subjected to the heat of the tropics, the powder became "CAKED" in the case, causing the hang fires, squib loads, and total duds, at the most inopportune times.
The LOTT case has no such problem, even with full house loads, with 500 gr bullets, and even heavier ones. IMO, the best use of the Lott is not full house loads, but should be loaded to the velocities of the 458 Win Mag, without the higher pressures, and no compacting of powder charges. My lott is loaded to exactly 2100 fps, with a 500 gr Woodliegh solids, and softs. The recoil is not that bad, and I have never experienced a problem with the LOTT! The above speed with a 500 gr bullet, is just above the old 450NE 3 1/4" double rifle round, and is the cartridge all BIG FIVE cartridges are judged by!
Today, the 458 Win Mag can be utilized best by shooting 450 Gr bullets, and backing the speed down to about 1900-2000 fps, with the powders we have today. IMO, the 458 Win Mag still doesn't have enough powder capacity to handle a 500 gr bullet efficiently, even with modern powders, and will work much better if backed down some!
All the above is the opinion of only one man, though tempered by 64 yrs, from the age of six years of shooting, and of 59 yrs of loading for, and hunting with big bore rifles of all types! I understand opinions very, and mine is no more valuable that that of anyone else's. Just my two cents, spend it any way you choose!
There is no way to say why any cartridge takes off, when another with exactly the same ballistics doesn't!
The 458 LOTT took off before, but one advantage it has is factory ammo. The 416 Rem Mag did the same thing, because it is identicle to the 416 Hoffman, and like the Watts, the Hoffman had a following before Remington made a very minor change, and and changed the name calling it the 416 Rem Mag Of their own design. Remington has done that a number of times, with cartridges like 7mm express, People didn't buy it, so they changed the name to 280 Rem. The cartridge was, and would have sold better if it had kept it's wildcat name of 7MM-06. That "06" tagged onto the name would have drawn Americans to the cartridges like flies to dead meat.
Some times there is good reason a cartridge doesn't take off, and the 458 win mag, is one that should have never left the design sheets, and changed to the full 375 H&H length case, in either the Watts form, or the LOTT form, and either one would now be the 458 Win Mag, and the cartridge that was named the 458 win mag, woluld have died on the design table!
In the end, who knows, what folks will like, look at the baggy pants of the young today, who in their right mind would have thought that crap would become popular! SHEEEEEEEEH!