coyote gun

Discussion in 'Rifle Talk' started by markIVbigblock, Dec 5, 2004.

  1. markIVbigblock

    markIVbigblock Super Member

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    I wanna get into hunting coyotes I was wonderin what an ideal coyote gun would be ive been thinkin about alot of stuff like 25-06, 257 roberts, 22-250, and id like to get a .204 ruger I have a 220 swift which would work great but i wanna get somethin new I also have a 270 im wonderin if that would be overkill ? any other advice on hunting or calling coyotes would be appreciated thanx

    Aaron
     
  2. uglydog

    uglydog Super Member

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    The 220 and 22/250 are so close in performance that there is no noticable difference in the field. The only advantage I see to the 22/250 is the ammo is easier to find and more factory options are available. The 270 will work fine on coyotes but it is indeed overkill if you wish to save the pelt (this is important to me as I am not in the habit of thowing away $20+ dollars unless it is on guns, women, and food; scratch women, I forgot I'm now married.) The 25 calibers are good coyote guns but begin to have many of the same negatives as the 270, especially the 25/06. I have a 6mm which is pretty decent but the exit holes are a pain to sew back up too. I'm not familiar with the new 204, I would have reservations at this time as I am not satisfied with the results of the 17 Rem on the big coyotes I run across and feel the 223 and 222 are the lightest adequate calibers at this time for ranges out to about 200 yards or so.
    The best advice I have for a beginner is to use an electonic call. A boom box will work fine though it may be a little big and unwieldy compared to the callers made for that purpose. A couple of tapes like a dying rabbit and/or jackrabbit will generally give you a decent start. Something to draw their attention away from you is good also, a stuffed animal that is somewhat life like works well. I have a toy that looks vaguely like a cross between an opossum and an ardvaark that works surprisingly well. A rabbit hide hung from a fence or branch works well also. Best success seems to come early morning from before sun up until about 9:00 AM with much less activity in the evening until dark. If you can hunt at night and, especially if lights are allowed, then the night time is great. If lights are not allowed, a full moon with snow cover is still quite bright out, enough to allow the use of scopes with thick or illuminated cross hairs or peep sights. Coyotes usually respond fairly quickly, they are the top predator in most areas so are not shy about taking a meal away from other animals. I generally call for 20 minutes or so before moving. In heavily hunted areas they may be a bit more cautious but still are mostly within this time frame.
    For ammo, I prefer a hollow point bullet in most circumstances. They often don't exit and are less likely to riccochet in the event of a miss. I use several different guns when I have to shhot a coyote. A shotgun with lead #2 or BB shot is my preferred gun in populated areas unless noise is an issue. Then I use either an M-1 rifle in 30 M-1 caliber or a Marlin Camp Rifle in 9mm. The first I use a 110 gr hollow point and the second either 124 gr or 147 gr hollow points. I have a 22 WMR that I hope will work out for this same purpose as it is even quiter than the former guns. I'm trying 40 gr soft points from Remington in the hopes they will penetrate better than the hollow points from everyone else and transmit energy better than the FMJs. These guns will work out to 100 yards though are better at shotgun ranges. For longer work I use a 223 with 45 gr hollow points (often Winchester factory loads) and these are good out to 200 yards. Beyond that I'll use the 6mm with 80 gr bullets and write off the pelt value.
    One last suggestion, find a place that will take the fur while still "in the round", i.e. unskinned. One generally doesn't get enough coyotes to invest in the time and equipment to properly care for the hides but one can usually get half the market price the whole dog if in decent shape. If there is no furrier close, look for a trapper who will take the hides off your hands. They may even be responsive to picking them up from you which eliminates a trip to where they may live. Good luck.
     

  3. markIVbigblock

    markIVbigblock Super Member

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    thanks uglydog i love the .222 as a varmint round and i always wanted one but then this new 204 ruger came out and its a 222 necked down to .204 there is 2 bullet choices 32 gr and 40 gr the 32 gr has a muzzle velocity of 4250 fps and the 40 gr a velocity of around 3900 fps it just sounded ideal for coyotes what do u think? my buddy up here at college has a gf that i guess calls coyotes im gonna see if maybe i could go out w/ her sometime so she can show me the ropes we'll see i was def. thinkin an electronic caller thanks for the advice

    Aaron
     
  4. uglydog

    uglydog Super Member

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    Having someone to show you the ropes is a great help, it would have saved me an awful lot of frustration and earned me a lot of money back when furs had some real value to them. I prefer mouth calls over callers due to their ease of carry and being able to adjust or change the cadence or tone in response to the animals reactions. Also, batteries don't die and the tonal quality is different and, in my estimation, more life-like. CD and chip callers are better in this regard but I still prefer manual calls.
    As for the 204, I will with hold judgement. I remember hearing how effective the 17 Rem was but after losing several dogs, I realized that the coyotes up here are nearly twice the size of the ones being shot in the magazines and by the people I was talking to. Even moving up to the 30 gr bullets didn't help much. Experience has shown me what I am currently using is very effective for my needs and after being burned by the 17 Rem, I'm not too thrilled to repeat myself. If I were to try the 204, I'd probably go with the 40 gr bullets; 45 grs is almost marginal in the 223.
    Also beware of your buddy, I wouldn't trust him. If he is willingly sending you out into the woods with his girlfriend, ask yourself "Why?". He must be trying to get away from her and is hoping you two will "click". Find out quick before she nails your hide to the wall. LOL.
     
  5. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    How well would the .243 in a 60 gr bullet do? and how far could you shoot a yote with that setup. has anyone tried the newer .223 sswm? it is suppose to be up there with the 22-250
     
  6. uglydog

    uglydog Super Member

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    The 60 gr .243 bullets do fine for coyotes in the guns that shoot them well. My 6mm doesn't like them nor anything much less than 75 grs. Effective range is farther than you can probably hit a coyote, at least I know it is for me. From the little I've heard, the 22 WSSM is as effective as the 22/250 and 220 Swift as would be expected as they all shoot the same bullets at roughly the same velocities.
     
  7. Logjam

    Logjam Super Member

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    I've done a lot of coyote hunting myself. I've always used a .243. My hunting buddy used a 22-250.

    What you descover while hunting coyotes is that they are smarter than you are. If you can see them they know you are there. Lots of running, trotting shots. But you can hunt all week and not get a single shot too.

    You will get a lot of 200 yd shots. You can also get closer ones, if you are snooping and pooping in the woods.

    I would suggest a .222 (my current coyote gun; a Rem 788.)

    I like the 788 because it's so easy to unload. As I often hunt from a pick up. And I NEVER carry a loaded gun into or out of a pick up. I snap in the clip after I get out, and I take it out before I climb back in.

    You will be happy with a .222, 22-250, 257 Roberts or a .243. I had a pal who hunted them with a 270 using 110 grn. bullets. They work just fine. Not over kill at all. If you hit one within 50 - 100 yds with a 22-250 you just about destroy the pelt..Those 22-250 explode like a bomb at close range. You can also take 350 yd shots. At that range you can keep the cross hairs on hair...and that's a long way off.

    I like the .222. It's good to 250 yds, and I just don't like to shoot farther than that. Two hundred and fifty yards is a long ways off, no matter what the gun magazines say.

    BTW: If your experience is anything like mine; you'll miss a lot of shots. That's the fun of hunting coyotes; they really make you work.

    If you hunt them with dogs that's a different story. Then you can use a shotgun, but be careful not to hit one of your dogs.

    Also if you hunt them with dogs you'll get a lot more of them. One a day, at least. Least that's my experience.
     
  8. markIVbigblock

    markIVbigblock Super Member

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    lol logjam huntin coyotes w/ dogs reminds me of somethin i was told about when i was pheasant hunting in iowa there was a guy w/ an old pickup that he took the bed off of and replaced it w/ a dog box he had it rigged up so he could pull a rope from the cab and it would open the box he had a bunch of old greyhounds and an aerdale and hed get to chasin coyotes w/ his truck then pull that rope and all the dogs would dive out the back the greyhounds would run it down then they had the aerdale for a strike dog. i never got to see it myself but i heard it was quite a sight o yeah and by the way i have been lookin for a decent .222 but i dont have alot of money since i spent alot on my last rifle and i dont like the removable box magazine on the older ones but i do have my eye on an old savage 340 i guess i could live w/ the box mag. but when i start reloading maybe ill load some 110 gr rounds for my .270 and give them a try if not then ill stick w/ my .220 swift and save up for a 257 roberts or 22-250 what do u think about the 25-06 for coyotes?

    Aaron
     
  9. Logjam

    Logjam Super Member

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    Re: re: coyote gun

    Whew: kind of a long run on sentence my friend.

    I'm not sure that hunting coyotes with dogs is legal anymore. I was hunting them with pups in the late 60's. We had a pick up with about five pens in it. When we saw a coyote we'd pull a roap and the "sight" dogs would run off after the coyote. They were hounds of some kind. Then we'd let the "kill" dog out. Usually a German Shepard.

    The sight dogs would run after the coyote, and catch up with him pretty quickly. Coyotes however, are smart and sometimes they'd hide in a little draw and the sight dogs would run over them. So sometimes the coyote would get away.

    But usually the hounds would get right up to the coyotes. When the coyote turned to nip at his attackers he'd slow down and the kill dog would catch up. It didn't take log for the shepard to kill the coyote. Like two bites.

    We seldom had to shoot. The dogs did the work. Since the coyotes had a bounty we'd skin the ears and hang the remains on a barbed wire fence. We got a buck and a half for two ears.
     
  10. luv2safari

    luv2safari Moderator

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    For years I used my 416 Rigby loaded with the smaller and faster Speer 350 gr Mag Tips on 'yotes...right off my porch and out the bedroom window.

    I never once felt under-gunned! :roll: :roll: :wink:

    It was excellent practice for shooting badder things... :shock:

    I also like 223 in general and 243 for longer shooting...
     
  11. luvtohunt.com

    luvtohunt.com Guest

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    I have to admit, I never thought I would hear the words "smaller load for yotes" and ".416 Rigby" in the same sentence. I use a 220 swift and absolutely love it. I haven't lost a dog that I had made an accurate shot on.
     
  12. luv2safari

    luv2safari Moderator

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    LTHunt,

    That 220 swift is a great old caliber! :D Years ago I had a Win 70 in 220; it was a one ragged hole rifle. One of the dummest things I ever did was to trade it off. :oops:
     
  13. Logjam

    Logjam Super Member

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    Re: re: coyote gun

    When I started really shooting a lot in the early 60's; the 220 Swift was gonzo. None around. Least I don't recall seeing any. Then they came back about a decade ago; or was it two decades?

    Did you experience throat erosion?
     
  14. markIVbigblock

    markIVbigblock Super Member

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    i have a ruger 77 in 220 swift and i havent shot it a whole lot since i dont go varmint hunting much but i havent experienced any throat erosion but i have heard of it happening w/ the 220 and ive heard that the whole throat erosion thing was bull who knows i dont think ill ever shoot it enough to worry about it and im not sure anyone else would for that matter but maybe it is real my experience is ive never seen it but luv2 id love to hear ur opinion on it

    Aaron
     
  15. Logjam

    Logjam Super Member

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    Re: re: coyote gun

    My friend, your post is fine, but periods at the end of sentences and capital letters at the beginning, while old hat among the young set, makes for better understanding with us older farts.
     
  16. luv2safari

    luv2safari Moderator

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    Re: re: coyote gun

    With our modern powders and bigger bullets, used with slower powders, I don't think that the Swift suffers from an unusual rate of throat erosion. If you realy want to fry throats, shoot the RUM 300 or the Wby 30-378...Those are over bore throat scalders of the first order IMHO. :shock:

    One of the reasons the early Swifts got a bad rap was knuckleheads "blue pilling" light bullets with fast powders just for the sake of velocity...kind of like the race into space that followed WWII. In the mid 30s a 4,000 FPS round was a real eye opener. The Swift was never used properly from the get-go. Remember, though, they didn't have our wonderful selection of powders and bullets back then.

    Use the wonderful Nosler 60 gr Partiton with RL 15 or IMR 4320 at about 3550 FPS and you have a great combination. Those Ruger 77s will shoot right along with any of the old Mdl 70s! :wink: :D
     
  17. wwb

    wwb Super Member

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    I really hate to get practical in the middle of this, but the original subject was a coyote gun...

    If it is to be STRICTLY a varmint gun, I'd opt for a .223; it'll do the job as far as you can shoot; even with a .220 Swift, you still have to deal with trajectory on coyote-size targets once you're past 200 yards.

    If the gun going to have to serve as more than just a varmint gun, I'd go straight to a .243 Win.

    Pretty common, ordinary calibers; but both are well-suited to the job. And, incidentally, if you don't handload for the .220 Swift, you had better be independently wealthy if you want to shoot it. On the other hand, .223 ammo is reasonably affordable unless you're buying match-grade stuff.
     
  18. Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    I agree with wwb as long as you are not trying to sell coyotes for the skins.The more powerfull the gun the more damage to the pelt and like wwb I used to use a 223 non expanding bullet to not tear up hides.In Montana one year we got 25.00 per coyote not tore up,my brother-in-law uses the 22-250 and ruined all coyotes he shot.One weekend I shot just 7 and he got 2,I made 25.00 per coyote and he was offered 6.00 per coyote cause damage was to bad.I like to use a 22 but in Montana the shots are longer .223 all the way for yotes you might want to sell,if it's just for sport,any thing will work that was mentioned.I've killed alot of coyotes and by far the most has been with a 22.Drop-Shot
     
  19. Logjam

    Logjam Super Member

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    Re: re: coyote gun

    Use the wonderful Nosler 60 gr Partiton with RL 15 or IMR 4320 at about 3550 FPS and you have a great combination. Those Ruger 77s will shoot right along with any of the old Mdl 70s! :wink: :D[/quote]

    I live one half mile from the Nosler factory, here in Bend, Oregon. It's a little slice of heaven. You can buy their seconds for half price...just wonderful. :)
     
  20. cowpoke

    cowpoke Guest

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    markIVbigblock,

    If you are still looking for a .222, Remington mad a batch of them in the ADL synthetic model in the past couple of years and they are still reasonably common at some of the dealers around here anyway.

    I bought one last spring and that bugger will shoot 3 shot groups at 100 yards that I can completely cover with a dime. I haven't done aything to the rifle except mount a Nikon Pro-staff 3-9x40. It is a wonderful rifle.

    A few things to consider for picking a yote rifle. If you want them to flop over dead when you shoot them a 243 is a good choice. Yes they will do that when hit with a 222, 223 or similar rifle but the shot placement to get them to do that is a lot more ciritcal and the range a lot shorter than with a 243.

    In addition to the 222 I also have a 243 and 25-06. Using bullets that break up real easy the later two can make a big nasty ugly mess out of a yote, especially when it is close in. However they generally stay put righ there unless it is a real bad shot.

    If you are looking to sell the furs then some folks will recommend using a tough bullet that makes a little hole going in and just a little bigger one coming out the other side.

    A 222 probably won't do much fur damage unless the yote is real close.