Help a shotgunner choose a centerfire rifle?

Discussion in 'Rifle Talk' started by j beede, Jan 29, 2005.

  1. j beede

    j beede Guest

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    I spend most of my firearm time with shotguns. I recently spent a most enjoyable day at a range plinking with a bushmaster .223--too much fun! Now I want to add a "fun" centerfire rifle to my safe. By fun I mean the gun must:

    - be cheap to shoot
    - be cheap to buy
    - be legal to buy in Califonia (no B-Master, no 9mm carbine)
    - have low enough recoil for a 10 year old to handle
    - fire at least 98% of the time when the trigger is pulled
    - be accurate enough to have fun at the 100 and 300 yard ranges.

    I am considering:
    • Ruger mini-14
      Baikal IZH-18 single shot
      Baikal IZH-94 double rifle
      Mossberg SS1
      Weatherby Vanguard
    ...all in .223. I have had bad experiences with semi-auto rifles and shotguns jamming. That is why I am looking at the bolt action and single shots. Is the mini-14 known to be prone to jamming? Others that I should be looking at? This gun will see range duty only.

    ...j
     
  2. 1gsplover

    1gsplover Super Member

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    :shock: My son got the Mini-14, I got the mini-thirty. Neither will hit a barn if you're standing INSIDE. There's a guy down in Texas (I think) that's making nice $$$ accurizing the Ruger junk. My Savage .223 will shoot pretty good with factory loads and really good :D with handloads... low recoil and cheap. too.
    For the bucks, the Savage products are really good values, IMHO.
    Good shootin'!
    ///olde pharte/// 8)
     

  3. grimel

    grimel Guest

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    With single shots being on your list, the NEF Handi-Rifles are cheap ($200 NIB cheap) and shoot beyond reason for the $$. AND have the option of being sent back to the factory to have shotgun and other rifle barrels added at about $100 per barrel (shipping included).

    For the price I've seen on Mini-14's USED here (Tn) you could buy a NIB T/C Encore (or Contender) in 223 and they will shoot absurdly well. If you have ANY thoughts to shooting the specialty pistols, buy the Contender/Encore as a pistol first and add the rifle barrel later (these don't go back to the factory - barrels about $200ish over the counter). Pistol frame ($270ish) and a 16in barrel == pistol that needs a rifle butstock to be a rifle (very small, very light, very little recoil, and very accurate).

    Of the three above I have the Contender and NEF's. The Contender will shoot rings around the NEF. The NEF will do anything that needs to be done (with in reason) at 300yds. Many more options for the Contenders. The NEF's are easier to get. If I were to start over today, I'd buy 2 NEF's for the price of one Contender and be covered for anything not needing a shotgun up to big bears.

    Of the ones YOU listed, the Vanguard is something else. It might (probably) will need a trigger job (or replacement) to do good work at 300yds. The Savage doesn't need trigger work beyond dropping the weight to your desired level (with included tool) - takes 10 minutes. Both shoot well to 300yds.
     
  4. goose

    goose Guest

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    you may want to go to the walmart websight ..they have resobale prices on svage varmitors which shoot well and are available in an aray of options including thumbhole sprter stocks, stainles yada yada yada. come with the accutriger which is also nice.

    if your considering a vanguard go with the cheaper howa models also on walmart website and for less. howa use to be the sole manufacturer for many years for weatherby including the mark 5 line before they brought it back to the states and is now made by saco in maine.

    for a really reliable pump gun you can look into some of the henry repeaters or winchester gallery guns. if i am not mistaken taurus even makes one but i think these are just plain jane 22's but good for kids to learn on
     
  5. goose

    goose Guest

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    p.s. a $10 brick of 22's will keep a kid happy for a month. that is something to take into consideration.
    The pumps teach them how to work the action should they decide to at some point move up to a trap gun, duck gun and so on.
    Not to mention it was a great learning tool for later using a remington model 14 rifle which is also a pump. once you get the technique down the rest will follow.

    I am partial to the old winchester gallery guns though as i started with an old 22 pump gallery gun with a 15 shot tube give or take a few on the count. I then moved up to a 22 mag model also a pump that would hold about 12 shots in the tube and was great for shooting squirels.

    also had to practice snap shooting a lot with it to prepare for hunting with a real gun. by real gun i do not mean to say a 22 is not a real gun but definately not a deer rifle. By snap shooting i mean standing with the gun in an up right position kind of from one side of the hip to the top of the left sholder. I would then snap the gun to the shooting position chamber a the round by closing the action and shoot at a can at about 75 to 100 yards.

    If you hit the bottom edge it would jump up in the air. You would then pump the action and try to make it jump again when it hit the ground.

    This was invaluable to me in later years in those ocasions where a second shot was needed to drop the deer if the first one didn't.

    With proper techniqe the gun should snap right back to the same sight position you where in when you first started to pump the action to chamber the next round.

    Lots of fun!! :lol:
     
  6. grimel

    grimel Guest

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    One thing (here at least) the website/book prices are WAAAY over the in store prices. $388 will get you the Vanguard locally. Right now, some of the instore rifles will be clearanced due to hunting season being over.
     
  7. goose

    goose Guest

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    this is very true but i have been reviewing prices everywhere from used to new and about every place in the state of wisconsin...i am sure it varies in every state but for every riffle i looked at in stock or special order i could order it cheeper from them by atleast 50.00 or more. a bar 300 win mag with boss retails over 1 grand. on average you may get one for 9 but they always had it for 864

    for what i found in used guns in turn i could buy new for about 50 more then the used ones..

    can't wait for the gun shows to start up again that is where the deals are
     
  8. wired

    wired Guest

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    For just a fun rifle, it would be hard to beat the mini-14. If you actually wanna hit something at more than pistol range, go with something else. I also recommend the NEF rifles. I use a NEF .223 for coyote hunting, and if you ask me, it's THE coyote rifle. It's cheap enough that you won't have any worries about dragging it around in nasty weather, and you can camo it to your liking without feeling the pain of ruining a very nice rifle. Single shot rifles are great for kids to shoot, because it gets them in the "make every shot count" mentality early. For a bit more accurate a rifle (and consequently a bit more $$$), the T/C is a higher quality piece of hardware. With the NEF, it takes a while to get the ejector broken in. After that, keep that chamber/bore clean, or it doesn't like to eject. I don't know if it's the same way with the T/C.

    The only other bit of advice I'd add would be to stay away from buying them at Wal-Mart. Support your local gun shop. You'll typically get the stuff cheaper there anyway.
     
  9. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Beede,
    For just about all the reasons you listed I got a Savage 12Fv in 223 and continue to be highly satisfied with it. Now that I handload for it, it is even more fun and accurate to shoot and even less expensive which means even more trips to the range.

    Safe shooting.
     
  10. j beede

    j beede Guest

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    thanks for your inputs--you've given me a few things to consider that I hadn;t though of. The Baikal (soon to be Rem/Spartan) single and double break-open guns are a favorite of mine because of their internal hammer(s). I will investigate the T/C and Savage as mentioned. The Mossberg SS1 looks good to my eye--but I have never met anyone who has even seen one. CDNN is selling them--not usually a good sign.
    ...j
     
  11. Logjam

    Logjam Super Member

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    There are some AR-15 type rifles that you can still buy in Calif. They don't have a bayonette mount, a flash suppressor, a detachable magazine. But you can buy an AR-15 sorta rifle in .223. Go to a good gun store and talk to them.

    The Mini-14 is pretty AR-15ish. Shoots about the same way. Feels a little different (a lot different!), but same round, same kick....or lack of same.
     
  12. uglydog

    uglydog Super Member

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    I've got one of the Mossberg SSi-1s and have posted my experience with it on the single-shot site below. I am happier with it now than initially but for the price I would go with a Savage bolt gun. Initially I was going to get a Handi-rifle but I found a store where I could purchase the Mossberg for a little over $200 and recieved $50 from a competing store when they could not match the price. I also worry about the longevity of the gun, I don't see much in the way of sales and feel that there will be problems in the future finding parts that will need replacing.
     
  13. j beede

    j beede Guest

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    The Howa 1500 looks very nice--especially the models with the laminated thumbhole stock. The Savage looks very serious but is pricey for a "fun" gun.

    I wonder whether if the break action gins (NEF and Mossberg) are hard on scopes due to the vibration when closing?
     
  14. grimel

    grimel Guest

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    Not especially, the guys on the NEF list tend to pick cheaper scopes and don't complain about scope failures.
     
  15. goose

    goose Guest

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    personaly i would choose the saveage thumbhole for the little extra over the howa any day.

    one reason and one reason only

    TRIGGER

    the howa triggers are poor where the savage trigger is about as close as you will come to a full on custom trigger job

    you get a howa and you may like it but you may hate the trigger on it too. some gun shows have demos where you can actually try the savage trigger with a snap cap in.

    if you get the chance try it. you will fall in love with that trigger pull
     
  16. goose

    goose Guest

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    p.s. i honestly think the trigger pull on the savage with accu-trigger is better them my mark 5 weatherby. i have not had it adjusted but just out of the box the accutrigger is better

    just my opinion though
     
  17. j beede

    j beede Guest

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    Okay, here's my latest thinking.

    The laminated Savage or Howa look like great fun. I've never owned a centerfire rifle and have only shot semi-autos. My only use for a .223 is fun at the range after shooting trap. I'd love to shoot metal sihouettes, but activity is restricted to rimfire at my range.

    Question-the Savage is available as single shot or with magazine. What is the conventional wisdon around this choice given my application? I am going to try to handle thw Savage today to see what the trigger feels like. Are they going to let me dry fire the gun with or without a snap cap?
     
  18. grimel

    grimel Guest

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    For messing around I'd buy which ever is cheaper (single shot/repeater). I load my bolts one at a time 1/2 the time and it's never bothered me shooting a SS. In a 22lr, I like a repeater (auto's). Playng chase the can/ball is hard (but good practice) with a single shot.
     
  19. Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    I've owned 2 ruger mini14's and malfunctions were not the concern,they could be more accurate.I want to get another one and let accuracysystemsinc.com do their magic.Some of the Houston police departments have already sent some to them and can't say any thing but good,the full accuracy package is sniper quality.My problem is that ruger has the engineers and why don't they make an out of the box shooter?I plan on NEF in 223,those semi-autos can burn a crate of ammo in a hurry,single shots make you focus on each shot and it would take all day to shoot 1/2 of the ammo a semi-auto will.Just my opinion.Drop-Shot
     
  20. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    I knew you had good sense.