How to make guns more accurate

Discussion in 'Rifle Talk' started by Drop-Shot, Jun 30, 2004.

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  1. Jun 30, 2004 #1
    Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    What can a normal person,not a gunsmith,a person with a good head on his sholders and some mechanical skills do to make any gun more accurate?Drop-Shot
     
    Drop-Shot, Jun 30, 2004
    Drop-Shot, Jun 30, 2004
  3. Jul 4, 2004 #2
    Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    Hey wwb,you seem like a reloader that could answer this,What is the best powder for the 45/70 and does it take the large rifle primers.Drop-Shot
     
    Drop-Shot, Jul 4, 2004
    Drop-Shot, Jul 4, 2004

  5. Jul 4, 2004 #3
    mountainview

    mountainview Super Member

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    Well D-Shot, that is a bit like asking what can I do to make myself more attractive, depends on a lot of things. What kind of accuracy are you getting now and what things have you tried previously? In most factory rifles, 1 1/2" ain't bad at 100 yards and many firearms will do better if set up properly and the shooter does his/her job. I don't want to criticize anyone's mechanical abilities but proceed with extreme caution when tinkering with the innards of a firearm, bear in mind that the action and barrel are essentially pressure vessels and have definite design limits.

    Some things to consider if you ain't already tried:
    1) Try different loads/bullet weights. Not all loads shoot with the same accuray in a given firearm. This is an easy thing to do and often proves enlightening. It solved a problem with my old 25-06 with little effort and I watched 5-6 inch groups shrink to 1" on average at 100 yards.
    2) Check trigger pull. If it is too heavy this can lead to poor accuracy for folks such as myself. Unless you really know what you are doing and are willing to bet your safety and that of others on this ability, let a gunsmith do the actual adjustment, cost for a smith to do it is around 50 dollars which is not bad when you think about it. Folks who thought they knew more than they really did and decided that the manufacturer was at fault for their own bungled efforts have given us the "lawyer triggers" bemoaned in many forums. The Savage Accutrigger is the one notable exception to this but I am assuming that you are talking about a non accutrigger equipped firearm.
    3) Check the stock for pressure points. Free-floating is another option but this could get more involved than what you are prepared to do and may want to have a gunsmith do this. This is one of the reasons why I like Savage rifle as they are free floated and I don't have to worry about stock swell pushing on the barrel when wooden stocks are used.
    4) Check your trigger squeeze with some snap caps, obvious but if you are yanking rather than squeezing, throwing fixes and money ain't going to do much good.
    5) Check your scope's point of impact, on some scopes the POI can change with the power setting. I see this on an old Widefield I still use (was my first scope so I can't bear to part with it).
    There are a bunch of other things one could consider but the above are reasonable to low cost options that seem to work on most firearms. Also check your mounts and rings and whether the scope is leveled, sounds trivial but can have a major impact on accuracy and they can work loose over time. Chat with your local gunsmith and have him/her give your firearm a detailed inspection, even if it costs a few bucks, this could give you some more effective ideas to consider.

    Hope this helps. Have fun and safe shooting.
     
    mountainview, Jul 4, 2004
    mountainview, Jul 4, 2004
  6. Jul 4, 2004 #4
    Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    mountainview I have been reloading since 1972 when I got married.Don't read anything into that,I just wanted to wound her.Seriously I am a reloader for the 223,243,25/06,270,30/06,300 weatherby,300savage and 308.That does not count all the hand guns I reload for.I just bought this marlin 1895 cowboy(just sent the rear stock for a custom recoil pad) and have never shot or loaded for the 45/70.I use IMR4350 for 30/06,243,300 weatherby mag so I thought loads around 35000 to 38000 cup would prefer certain powders.I went back to montana and got almost all my reloading stuff but not the manuals.I have manuals dated as far back as 1968.So untill I can get back I need to ask questions or buy new manuals.I am out of a wheel chair now and enjoy the bench work I can do but I'm sure I don't have a slow enough powder to push 405gr and 500gr.If you have a starting and max favorite load for the 45/70 for the 2 bullets I mentioned,I would be glad to hear as I can't afford new manuals yet.Drop-Shot
     
    Drop-Shot, Jul 4, 2004
    Drop-Shot, Jul 4, 2004
  7. Jul 4, 2004 #5
    wwb

    wwb Super Member

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    Sorry, but I can't help you with .45-70 loads.

    I know a few guys who shoot blackpowder .45-70's with cast lead bullets, but there ain't much of anything to what they do besides fill 'er up and stuff in a bullet.

    I don't have any smokeless .45-70 experience.
     
    wwb, Jul 4, 2004
    wwb, Jul 4, 2004
  8. Jul 4, 2004 #6
    Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    Mountainview I found my reloading manuals,they were in a box I did not expect to find them in.I also found all my notes from past reloads and they go back to 72.My browning blr 243 shoots better than I remmember,5 shots are about 1 inch from outside to outside on fartherst hole.But I still have a problem.I have a bunch of 45/70 bullets I got from my brother-in-law.50 are 425gr and 50 are 500 gr.Both are hard lead and will require gas checks but the only load data I have is for the 350 gr.I see some garretts 420 gr that shoot 1925FPS and some buffalo bore 405gr that shoot 2100FPS.Can we duplicate those loads?I want to be safe and garretts stay in 26 to 27000 psi.I would love to see what powder they use.If you have any data on 425 and 500gr let me know.Drop-Shot
     
    Drop-Shot, Jul 4, 2004
    Drop-Shot, Jul 4, 2004
  9. Jul 4, 2004 #7
    Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    Thanks for the reply wwb and I plan to do some black powder loading just because others do it and tell me how much fun it is.I just sent gundoc my rear stock so he can put a custom recoil pad on,and I will have to search for loads for the large bullets I have.I got all my notes and past targets and I have some that shot under 1 inch long ago.When I get better I plan to work up a load for the 45/70 I just bought and hunt with it if I can this year.If not then I will use a handgun,but I did put in for a cow elk tag this year and hope I draw it.I hear of 1000 lb elk but I have yet to see one.I used to work in a slaughter house down south and I got to where I guess weight pretty good.Most I see are 400-600 lbs,with some cows 600-750 lbs.Any way,have a good 4th.Drop-Shot
     
    Drop-Shot, Jul 4, 2004
    Drop-Shot, Jul 4, 2004
  10. Jul 5, 2004 #8
    Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    Hey wwb would you do me a favor?I need to know the hardest lead bullets made for 45/70 44mag and 45LC.I read the magazines and they all say they are the hardest,most concrentric and most accurate,Who is the best?Drop-Shot
     
    Drop-Shot, Jul 5, 2004
    Drop-Shot, Jul 5, 2004
  11. Jul 6, 2004 #9
    mountainview

    mountainview Super Member

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    Howdy D-Shot.

    Glad you found the manuals. Can't provide any more info except that try some different loads and see what works. That is part of the fun of the sport IMO. I know I would rather have all loads cast in stone and shooting one hole groups and know it is a bit frustrating trying to find the holy grail of loads for a shootin iron but in retrospect, this is a lot of what keeps me poorer and happier while making the local proprietors grin from ear to ear when I pull in the parking lot. The means is often times as much fun as the ends.

    Have fun and safe shooting. :D
     
    mountainview, Jul 6, 2004
    mountainview, Jul 6, 2004
  12. Jul 6, 2004 #10
    8pointduck

    8pointduck Super Member

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    First you drop it about 4 times, then you beat it against a tree 2 times, then you lay it in the back of your truck and drive on some dirt roads.

    Then she will be a shooter :D
     
    8pointduck, Jul 6, 2004
    8pointduck, Jul 6, 2004
  13. Jul 7, 2004 #11
    Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    8pointduck,thats sacreligious,this marlin has the most beautiful wood I've ever seen on a marlin and I own several.I know the scratches and nicks will happen one day but I'm sure a few tears will be shed as I remmember when I't was perfect.
    y 30/06 looks like it fell off a cliff but I almost never miss animals I shoot at.On the range it does not impress most people.It shoots 1 1/2 in groups at best.I will be changing to 165gr hornadys and will work up a keeper load but the gun looks like it's killed elk and mule deer and white tail deer and coyotes,and hogs and prarie dogs,but I don't care,the first scratch is the only one that hurts.Drop-Shot
     
    Drop-Shot, Jul 7, 2004
    Drop-Shot, Jul 7, 2004
  14. Jul 8, 2004 #12
    8pointduck

    8pointduck Super Member

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    Now DP, You can't take me seriously.I've never dropped a gun.....oops dang well ok I have now......... :shock:
     
    8pointduck, Jul 8, 2004
    8pointduck, Jul 8, 2004
  15. Jul 21, 2004 #13
    Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    Hey 8pointduck,how far arew you from Abany GA.Drop-Shot
     
    Drop-Shot, Jul 21, 2004
    Drop-Shot, Jul 21, 2004
  16. Jul 21, 2004 #14
    8pointduck

    8pointduck Super Member

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    I live 40 miles south of Atlanta. Al-benny is a good ways away .
     
    8pointduck, Jul 21, 2004
    8pointduck, Jul 21, 2004
  17. Jul 22, 2004 #15
    Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    We have friends in Albany(and they do pronounce it funny) we visit when we go down south.They had a son that was alittle younger than me and he died 6 years ago.We keep in touch but just thinking about him hurts,I taught him to hunt,fish.He became a good sportsman and died at 38 years old.I bought golf clubs at the Mcgreger outlet store there,quail hunted and all pecan farmers begged us to come hunt the 4 legged pecan thieffs,no limits,we each took only 6 just in case the land owner was not up to date on regulations.Drop-Shot
     
    Drop-Shot, Jul 22, 2004
    Drop-Shot, Jul 22, 2004
  18. Jul 23, 2004 #16
    8pointduck

    8pointduck Super Member

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    Sorry to here about your friend. I'm 40 so I know he was still a young man.
     
    8pointduck, Jul 23, 2004
    8pointduck, Jul 23, 2004
  19. Jul 25, 2004 #17
    Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    9pointduck your still young,make sure all around know you love them cause none of us have a verified spot on earth,we could go any time.I dream about my childhood,I only went to school 1/2 day and went to the feed mill and unload train cars loaded with feed.I worked all week and week ends(EXCEPT FOR CHURCH)I still worked.By the time was 14 I could haul 2 100 lbs corn,1on each shoulder..My kids go to college so that want happen to them.I'm 51 and worn out,more yesterdays than tomarrows,and I can't tell if I'm making time or just marking time, young ones stay in school,find a way,make it happenDon't be a worn out old man wishing things were different,by god make them different.I help up and coming hunters to be good sportsmen,we went through the classes and us old guys learn alot,Knowledge is power and it can't be taken from you,except by death,but lets dwell on livivg and learning,Listen to those that know,grow by there experiences.Drop-Shot
     
    Drop-Shot, Jul 25, 2004
    Drop-Shot, Jul 25, 2004
  20. Jul 25, 2004 #18
    8pointduck

    8pointduck Super Member

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    I could not have said it any better. I know about that worn out thing but I am trying to do something about it . As for my kids, one is in college and the other is in 8th grade . I tell them all the time how important it is that that they get a good education and make good choices.
     
    8pointduck, Jul 25, 2004
    8pointduck, Jul 25, 2004
  21. Aug 11, 2004 #19
    Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    Tell them 8point that when you are young you don't think of the future.Living down there you know about logging and pulp wood trucks.One winter day I was trying to get my truck loaded and out of the woods on christmas day and we had no money for a nice dinner.I always kept a shotgun behind the seat of the old 51 chevy pulpwood truck.A 3 point deer stept right in front of me when leaving the woods,so I shot him.Deer season was closed but we needed meat.I tied the deer under the truck and got stopped by a state trooper for a broken tail light and handing me the warning he said to get that truck home cause it was about to bleed to death.He knew but also new it was to keep from starving to death.That was a Mississippi state patrol man and I thanked him.Tell your kids there are better ways to make a living that wont kill your back.Drop-Shot
     
    Drop-Shot, Aug 11, 2004
    Drop-Shot, Aug 11, 2004
  22. Dec 8, 2004 #20
    Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    If u have access to the tools, here are the steps you should take:

    1. The recoil lug is surface ground perfectly flat

    2. The front shoulder of the action is machined perpendicular to the center line of the action

    3. The internal barrel threads are uniformed. If you would like the threads straightened by recutting with a single point tool, this can be done at an additional charge. If you are not supplying an action, I would recommend a custom action, if for no other reason than resale value.

    4. The internal bolt lugs are machined perfectly flat and perpendicular to the bore of the action

    5. The rear lugs on the bolt are machined perfectly flat and perpendicular to the center line of the bolt

    6. The bolt face is machined perfectly flat and perpendicular to the center line of the bolt

    7. The bolt and action are then lapped to seat the two surfaces together

    8. The action is bead-blasted for a matte finish and various surfaces polished and stoned then blued

    9. Firing pin protrusion is checked and adjusted, if necessary

    10. The trigger is dis-assembled, stoned, and reassembled then adjusted to maintain a constant crisp trigger pull

    11. Barrels are indicated within .0002 TIR and then crowned

    good luck :)
     
    Anonymous, Dec 8, 2004
    Anonymous, Dec 8, 2004
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