I don't re-load for the round but am of the opinion that the 350 grain bullet is far superior to the standard 300 grain loading. That little extra ballistic coefficient and sectional density advantage means a much better down range capability for this shorter range round.
Hey luv2safari,how far off is the 450 marlin from458win mag?I've talked to some people that own those single shot rifles made in big timber montana,and many state they shoot a load so close to 458 win mag in velocity that only a velocity coulminator would tell the difference(I use a chrony)Have you looked at the difference between the 450 marlin and the 458 win mag?I would love to hear how far off they areDrop-Shot
The 450 Marlin is a good close in caliber, but it is far behind the 458 Win in power and velocity. The max one can expect out of the Marlin with 350 gr bullets is around 1,900 FPS, while the 458 develope in excess of 2,550 FPS. This translates to around 2,800 foot pounds of energy at muzzle for the Marlin verses over 5,000 for the 458 Win.
The Marlin could be pushed a bit more if it were chambered in a strong bolt action gun, but why? We already have the old 458 Win for the bolt actions and don't have any need for the Marlin in anything but fast handling lever action...a nice, potent close in round for areas where a long shot is uncommon.
I agree luv2safari but I was just wondering because the shilo sharps shooters in big timber montana shoot 600 yard targets and hit with 45/70 and the 450 was supposed to be quicker.Thanks for the info.Drop-Shot
Nothing wrong with either round...I like anything .375 and BIGGER!! I also admire the guys who know how to lob those slow, heavy rounds down range, right on target. 8)
I just have'nt been able to justify the 450 Mariln in my own mind, because the 444, 45-70, and 405 Win will do about anything the 450 Marlin will. I have never been one to hamper the introduction of good new cartridges, however, and am always gald to have an excuse...err, uhh...reason to buy another rifle.
The only thing I can fault the 450 for is the darned belt. :? They sure should have designed it without the belt and with a rim that wouldn't fit a 45-70 chambered gun.IMHO :idea:
All in all, I would like to have a Marlin in 450 for black bear hunting...I can't think of anything better for that purpose. :shock:
luv2safari I agree,I have been 20 feet from a grizzly,a small one I admit but I sure would have given more than that elk to have a big bore at that time.I remmember shooting that wesley richards 375 H&H and even though it rattled my head think what it would have done to that 350 to 400 lb grizzly.I almost bought a 375 H&H down south,it was a remington 700 bdl I think but the stock wasn't shiny like latter ones,but oil stained and rubbedand had been shot only a few times.I was 16 and 164 lbs when I last shot that 375 H&H,I'm 51 and 230 lbs now.With a recent back operation,it will be some time before I get to see that bear again.Thanks for the post.Drop-Shot
Hi again luv2safari,have you ever shot or know of someone that have shot the 45/70 garretts?It's hard to believe their reports and would love to get the opinion of a real big bore shooter.Their web site is garrett cartridges inc,when you get time have a look see and tell me what you think.Drop-Shot
I don't reload for the 450 marlin.But I do for the 45/70 and I use the hornady 350 gr. r.n. it has a sectional density of 0.238.I have tested it and it expands to a perfect mushroom when the velocity is kept above 1500 fps.. And with the 45/70 or 450 that isn't a problem both of them can safely be worked up to 2000 fps..
Hey deerdown444,I just have to jump in and let you know that I agree with your assesment of the 45/70,I watched a friend shoot through an old chrysler car with a 300 or 350 gr softpoint.I can't remmember but what stuck in my head was the bullet loaded to a little less than 1400 fps went through the drivers side door and out of the passenger door,and we could not even find the bullet.The hole on the passenger side door was as big as my fist almost.The 450 marlin and 45/70 can do it all.I have some bullets that my brother in law gave me,he sold his shiloh sharps(crazy)and traded a set of rcbs die's that have never been used and some 440 gr and 500 gr bullets,I'm not sure I want to shoot a 500 gr,but I saw a marlin guide gun in 45/70 shoot through a car(older car,more steel than plastic) with no problems.An animal of any size will fall with the right shot from 450 marlin or 45/70.Drop-Shot
Logjam there are only a few on this site that can answer that question with certainty,I got to see the 458 lott against a 458 win mag and it is a difference in size.When I was young I worked 1 summer for Lion Country Safari in west palm beach florida and I saw a rather large man with a 458 win mag shoot through a rail road tie(the wood) and the bullet didn't stop.I may never hunt anything dangerous but I want more than necessary if I did and mabe the 458 lott is it,I don't know.I have never heard of the 450 lott,they all would break my fragible back with 1 shot,so lets hear from the experts.Drop-Shot
Logjam I don't know what kind of bullet it was but the rail road tie only slowed the giant bullet slightly.While there at Lion Country Safari we had a hippo that had a virus that could spread so my uncle shot it with that 458 win mag,the hippo was sick but you can't hit the ground any harder and died.I was so impressed that I thought for years that was the biggest most powerfull round available.Then I heard of I think it was a 500 nitro express and then a 505,I don't know how much more powerfull you can get?I don't know the ballistics on the 458 lott but it has to be one bad killer on both ends.Drop-Shot
"Now they make the 416 Rigby, and 460 Weatherby, the 450 Lott and others.
Since the 458 has been so popular for so long, I just wonder if it is indeed enough gun and the newer ones are just also-rans?[/quote]"
That "also ran" 416 Rigby has been around since 1911 and is still outkilling the 458 Winchester by a good margin. The 458 Win is a short cased round that never quite lived up to all its claims and isn't considered a "stopper" for dangerous game. The published factory ballistics for the 458 Win were optomistic, to say the least. Actual tested velocities were about 100 to 150 fps short of Winchester's claims. Now, this doesn't seem like much in our hyper-velocity times, but remember that this equates to around 300-400 ft/lbs energy drop.
The 458 Lott and its earlier version, the 450 Watt are much more potent calibers...and MUCH MORE punishing to shoot. I have a 458 Win and a 416 Rigby, and the 458 is a pussycat to shoot, compared to the Rigby. The 470 is a good stopper and is at the low end of that catagory for professional hunters who use heavy calibers to keep clients and themselves alive when the "brown" hits the fan. A 500 Nitro or a 577 are used for stoppers when things get a bit out of kilter on a dangerous game hunt. :wink:
All of them are a gas to shoot...once... :roll: :wink:
luv2 I have heard of reports of some folks getting nose bleeding and bad headaches when shooting the biggest of the big guns,thats a concusion as I have heard,can there be any enjoyment in shooting these brusiers?Drop-Shot
I do get a "kick" out of shooting some of the big guns. I have to admit that I don't enjoy the 458 Lott, however. It hurts beyond any level of fun, for sure.
My favorites are the 470 and 500 Nitro in appropriate double rifles...shooting someone else's ammo. At $10.00/ squeeze :? for 470 and about $20.00 per jerk & flinch :shock: of the 500, it is good to be shooting a buddy's ammo and rifle. :wink:
I can reload the 416 Rigby for about $3.00/round, factoring in the price of brass depreciation, powder and a decent premium bullet. The 458 Win is not a lot more than most other magnum calibers to reload.
It is fun to shoot some reduced loads in front of friends, then hand them a rifle full of full house loads. :twisted: They are realy impressed with how tough I seem to be and how well I handle the savage recoil. :wink: :wink: :idea: :lol:
When we get together I will not shoot your gun,my 20 guage will suffice.I bet you get some wide open eyes with a full house load,I would like to see it but not do it,I'll keep busy with my guns.I leave for Montana March 19,we are supposed to have a house,all we are waiting on is the bank inspection and appraisel,the loan is ready and we are ready,if all goes ok we will sign papers on the 18th,I am signing a power of attorney so my wife can sign for me.If closing is put off then we will rent a storage place to put all our stuff.We will see,I got my barrelled action back from the gunsmith and the bell and carlson don't like the # 5 contour,when I sand it out it goes to fiberglass and foam,so I'll wait till I can afford the McMillan stock that comes with a forearm molded for the #5 contour and will be free floated.That will have to wait till we get the house.Drop-Shot