Scout rifle

Discussion in 'Rifle Talk' started by jeager106, Dec 19, 2004.

  1. jeager106

    jeager106 Guest

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    I want to make up a 'scout rifle'. I already have the Burris Scout scope.
    I want a bolt action and in .308.
    What rifle would make a good platform for a scout rifle and how does one mount the scope?
    Who makes scout mounts for what rifles?
     
  2. slugmensch

    slugmensch Guest

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    I will simply tell you of my experience. I will not claim that this is the "best" choice. I have a Rem. 700 ADL, with synthetic stock, in .308 (my favorite calibre) that I use as a "beater" rifle, so to speak. I became interested in the scout rifle concept - so I decided to use this rifle. The barrel on mine is 20" long, so the overall length fit the 1 metre requirement for a scout rifle. As it happens, B-Square makes a Picatinny/ Weaver rail for the 700, that simply attaches to the (existing) screw holes at the front of the receiver and the rear (iron) sight location. So, I simply removed the rear sight - and attached the rail. I found a Swift pistol scope, mounted it with Millet rings.... attached a modified shooting sling.... and it was finished. I decided to omit any sort of bipod and also, backup aperture sights. To be sure, the finished product is a bit over-weight by the scout rifle guidelines, but I am unconcerned about this. Also, as the ADL has a blind magazine, the changeable mag requirement was not met.
    The important issue (for me) is how it functions. I have been very pleased with this set-up. It works wonderfully for me - and is very comfortable (easy on the eyes) to shoot. It has become my favorite rifle - so much so that I have disposed of 3 of my other rifles - because I don't use them anymore.
    If you wished to keep the rifle in the "light weight" category (as per the scout rifle guidelines), then I would suggest a Rem. Model 7 as the starting point. This rifle has a light barrel - though I do not know if a scout scope rail is available for it.
     

  3. jeager106

    jeager106 Guest

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    slugmensch
    Exactly what I wanted! A personal opinion from someone that's been there done that.
    A synthectic 700 ADL would be a good choice.
    I don't care about the blind mag or the weight.
    The .308 is a well balanced caliber that will do anything required on this hemisphere.
    A used 700 ADL sythetic should be easy to find.
    The scout scope is an 'intermediate' eye relief scope. Would that rail work for this?
     
  4. slugmensch

    slugmensch Guest

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    Yes, the intermediate eye relief scope should work - as long as it allows at least 8 - 9" of eye relief. The scope rail that I refer to (available at Brownell's and at the B-Square website) has cross-slots at 1/2" on centre, so it offers much flexibility for the exact location of the rings. You could even mount the scope so to "cantilever" back over the receiver area - if you wished or needed (due to eye relief issues). My Swift scope has 13.3" inches of eye relief and the rear-most part of the ocular is located about 1" ahead of the forward end of the loading/ ejection port. This places the scope in perfect position for me.
    I'm glad that you are OK about the 700 ADL with synthetic stock. IMHO, this is the best value that Remington offers... and one of the truly great "sleeper" rifles all 'round. Many people seem to have the silly impression that the ADL, because of the matte finish (and I suppose, the blind magazine) is inferior to the other models in the 700 line. This is absolute nonsense. Other than those two aspects, it is EXACTLY the same rifle as any other 700. They are available new for about $400.00. I have had two of these, both in .308. Both have been outstanding. Both are capable of 3/4" groups or better (in fact, about 5/8", to be exact) - and the ONLY modification I made was to adjust the triggers. My "scout rifle", now that it wears only a 2X scope, will still do less than 2" groups at 100 yds, with consistency.
    Best of luck with your project. Scout rifles are an aquired taste..... and many people seem to detest the very idea... but I cannot speak too highly of the concept and my experience with them. They are not suited for any/ all shooting situations (bench-rest shooting, or 600 yard sniper use, for instance) but then, no one rifle will suit ALL scenarios. For the purpose for which they were designed - they do very well.
    Let me know how it works out. If I can help further, please let me know.
     
  5. markIVbigblock

    markIVbigblock Super Member

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    ruger has a new model of the 77 for a scout setup I kno it comes in 7mm-08 but im not sure if it comes in anything else? u may wanna check it out I own 3 ruger 77s and they are all nice rifles as a matter of fact im tryin to save up for another but someone mentioned the 700 ADL the 700 is an excellent choice also I have a 700CDL and love it the ADL is the cheaper way to go and they are both on par but check them both out

    Aaron
     
  6. wudjalike2no

    wudjalike2no Guest

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    what is a scout rifle?
     
  7. slugmensch

    slugmensch Guest

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    Long story.... A very respected, former military man and now "guru" of the rifle world (Col. Jeff Cooper) came up with an idea for an all-purpose rifle (as near as could be designed). This occurred a number of years ago. Col. Cooper decided that the rifle should fit certain criteria.... such as :
    1) No more than 1 metre long.
    2) Relatively light in weight (I think about 6.5 lbs, complete).
    3) Bolt - action.
    4) Equipped with a shooting sling (three-point attachment).
    5) .308 calibre (easy ammo availability/ current mil. cal.). 6) Equipped with a low-power, long eye-relief scope,
    mounted forward of the receiver (so to facillitate shooting
    with both eyes open and allowing for quicker target
    aquisition - which this set-up does nicely).
    7) Removable magazine (to make reloading quicker).
    8) (Optional) back-up aperture sights.
    9) (Optional) bipod, for use as required.

    Those are the basics. This was not really intended as a military weapon - but, as Col. Cooper has a military background - some quasi- military aspects creeped into the design (such as the removable magazine.... most people do not need quick reloading while hunting). Since the publication of this "scout rifle concept", there has been debate within the rifle community - some hate the idea and think it is bogus, others embrace it. Really, what it all about is a light (easily carried), accurate (out to 250 yds), practical rifle. I think that most of the controversy surrounds the forward- mounted, long- eye relief scope. Many seem to hate the idea.
    As for my interest, being the free-thinker that I am, I was intrigued - though I do not regard Jeff Cooper as some sort of God.... as some do. I never set out to exactly duplicate ALL of the aspects of his design... I have omitted those items about which I simply don't care (removable magazines, bipod, aperture sights). I did wish to try the forward-mounted, LER scope.... which, for all-round use, I like very much.
    Of course, just as with any device, there are compomises. The scout rifle is not a perfect creation - nor is it a do-all weapon (nothing of that sort exists). It is different, which appeals to me.... and I have found mine very handy and pleasant to shoot.
    A word about scout rifles available to the public. There is, at this time, only one such purpose-built scout rifle manufactured by a gun company. That is the Steyr Scout. These are about $2500.00. For a time, Savage offered their own version (quite a bit simpler than the Steyr Scout), but they have discontinued it. Most people who are interested in a scout rifle construct their own - (all kinds of different brands/ models have been used as the basis for these). The scout rifle is still somewhat of a rarity - many people haven't heard of this.... many others who have don't care for them. They are "an aquired taste" , I think.
     
  8. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Savage Scouts can still be had via the custom shop (and in LH TOO!).

    As for what is a Scout Rifle. I'll just post the def given by the good Col Cooper:

    By the definition of the Scout Rifle Conferences held under the auspices of Jeff Cooper the scout rifle has been defined as a general purpose rifle suitable for taking targets of up to 400 kg (880 pounds) at ranges to the limit of the shooters visibility (nominally 300 meters) that meets the following criteria:

    Weight-sighted and slung: 3 kilograms (6.6 lb). This has been set as the ideal weight but the maximum has been stated as being 3.5 kg (7.7 pounds ).
    Length: 1 meter (39 inches)
    Nominal barrel length: .48 meter (19 inches)
    Sighting system: Forward and low mounted (ahead of the action opening) long eye relief telescope of between 2x and 3x. Reserve iron sights desirable but not necessary. Iron sights of the ghost ring type, without a scope, also qualify.
    Action: Magazine fed bolt action. Detachable box magazine and/or stripper clip charging is desirable but not necessary.
    Sling: Fast loop-up type, i.e. Ching or CW style.
    Caliber: Nominally .308 Winchester (7.62 x 51 mm). Calibers such as 7 mm - 08 Remington (7 x 51 mm) or .243 Winchester (6 x 51 mm) being considered for frail individuals or where "military" calibers are proscribed.
    Built-in bipod: Desirable but not mandatory.
    Accuracy: Should be capable of shooting into 2 minutes of angle or less (4") at 200 yards/meters (3 shot groups).


    If you try the fwd mount scope (I mean REALLY try it not just a few shots) you might never go back for a GP rifle. The main draw back is low light on critters the crosshairs can be dang near impossible to see - so try a pistol scope with lighted crosshairs (or get the scope with the HEAVY crosshairs).
     
  9. grimel

    grimel Guest

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    The above was me.
     
  10. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    brownells has the .308 rem 700 assembly for $400, aint much better in my opinion as the 700
     
  11. cobra

    cobra Guest

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    Like a lot of products, just because the theory is sound, it doesn't mean that it's marketable. While on the surface it would appear that Jeff Cooper has devised the perfect rifle, it is just too foreign a concept to most people's tastes. I played around with the idea for a number of years until I asked myself, what do I want in a perfect rifle? To make a story short, I settled on the Savage Sierra in 7mm-08 with a conventionally mounted 2X7 Burris compact. It has everything I want in an everyday rifle and it is one I will not sell. I think it is that way for everyone. What's important to me might not be important to the next fellow. And that I believe is the drawback to the scout, we don't want to be told what we should have for the perfect rifle, something that Jeff Cooper tends to do.
     
  12. wired

    wired Guest

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    I think the scout rifle concept is quite inspired, but I wouldn't agree with it completely. There's something for everybody, and that's what works for him. My rifle of choice doesn't really fit into the scout catagory (though it does touch in a few places). If a person were to own just one firearm, it would be an excellent place to start.

    Ruger makes a version of their M77 called the Compact. It's got about a 16.5" barrel, about a 12" LOP, forward-mounted scope base (though it also has the traditional scope bases, if you want to keep to that type), and it is chambered in .223, .243, .308, and one or two other calibers. I was actually considering buying the one in .243 (still might). In the realm of factory-built scout rifles, the .308 version is about the closest you're gonna find without going with the $2500 Steyr.
     
  13. shooter93

    shooter93 Well-Known Member

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    I liked fooling with the scout rifle concept...a very handy weapon. I am a custom gun lover so I used a different approach to building one. I used a Krag action and Barelled it to 35 Krag. I have a 20 inch barell, quarter rib, express sight and quick detachable forward mounted scope. I can't own a plastic stock so i used english walnut and cut the pattern to cover the left side action plate on the Krag action. I get 358 Winchester velocities with no pressure signs. Just need to finish the stock and send it to be checkered. It's not a true scount rifle according to Cooper.....but it works for me
     
  14. luvtohunt.com

    luvtohunt.com Guest

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    Ruger's M77 comes in 308. I just sent one out of the shop. Nice handling gun.


    Kelsey
    www.luvtohunt.com
     
  15. craigc

    craigc Guest

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    whats a "scout rifle"?
     
  16. wired

    wired Guest

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    Re: re: Scout rifle

    See above posts.