second opion needed on marlin 30-30

Discussion in 'Lever Action' started by marlin123, Jul 8, 2005.

  1. marlin123

    marlin123 Guest

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    hello, everyone im thinking about getting a marlin 30-30 4 deer hunting this season im hunting in thick trees and brush and i dont know alot about the gun but ive heard good things so just send me a private messege or just write a reply and let me know your opion. :D
     
  2. mike .308

    mike .308 Well-Known Member

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    As far as Lever actions go, Marlins are fairly decent lever actions. But a 30-30 is a very marginal cartridge.
     

  3. wwb

    wwb Super Member

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    There's nothing "marginal" about the .30-30.

    The poster said something about "....thick trees and brush....", so he's not looking for a beanfield rifle. Out to 150 yards, the .30-30 has more than enough punch to do the job. It has a "rainbow" trajectory when compared with a lot of faster calibers, but for close-in work, that's no concern.

    I hunted with a .30-30 for about 15 years before switching to a .44 Mag (which has even LESS energy, and a SHORTER effective range than the .30-30) Most of the deer I took with the .30-30 were between 15 and 50 yards away, but two of them were a touch over 100 yards; and ALL of them were one-shot kills.
     
  4. TXVAshooter

    TXVAshooter Guest

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    Re: re: second opion needed on marlin 30-30

    :shock: marginal? I wonder what the thousands of deer felled by the caliber might say to that. It's as much a matter of mating to rifle to the conditions shooting as anything else. Much of the rest of it falls into using the space betw the ears on what's an safe, clean kill. The 30-30 can do it well, at the right distance.
     
  5. mike .308

    mike .308 Well-Known Member

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    This is an opinion forum and in my opinion the 30-30 is marginal at best. Yes there are thousands of 30-30 lever action guns out there but that's because that's what most 94s and Marlin lever actions are chambered for. If Winchester offered a model 70 in 30-30 do you think they would sell one rifle all year in that caliber? Thousands of deer were killed with 30-30s that is true, but what does that prove as far as comparing the round against the competition. You could kill a deer with a spear if thats all you had to work with. More people are shot to death each year with .22s and .25s than with 45 acps. That doesn't make me want to go out and buy a .25 caliber auto as my primary self defense weapon.

    In thick brush on deer or pigs at ranges under 100 yards I'll take a .44 mag Ruger carbine over a Marlin 30-30 any day of the week.

    At ranges over 100 yards a 30-30 can't even come close to rounds like the .30-06, .270 or .280. A 30-06 has more energy at 200 yards that a 30-30 has at the muzzle. At 300 yards a .270 drops about 2.8 inches compared to almost a foot for the 30-30.

    In summary for under 100 yards it's not the best choice. For over 100 yards it doesn't even come close to a .30-06.

    I'm not saying it's a terrrible cartridge. It's just that there are a lot of better rounds out there.
     
  6. wwb

    wwb Super Member

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    You're correct... it is an opinion forum, and everyone is entitled to their opinion.

    The energy comparisons you made between the .30-30 and the '06 are pretty much right on.... but it doesnt address the question of how much punch you need; a .458 Lott has more energy at 200 yards than an '06 at the muzzle - by your logic, that's what should be used, rather than an '06.

    There was a well-respected outdoor writer who used to preach the concept of "enough gun"..... if 150 yards or less is all you figure to shoot, then the old .30-30 is "enough gun".

    It's also interesting that you bad-mouth the .30-30 by pointing out how much more power the '06 has, and then say how much you like the .44 Mag, which, by the way, has less energy and even more of a "rainbow" trajectory than the .30-30.

    And, on the subject of trajectory... you're right.... a .30-30 drops a whole bunch at 300 yards (except now you're comparing it to a .270 instead of an '06). But if you plan on shooting at a deer 300 yards away with a .30-30, you are an irresponsible and unethical hunter.

    And, to quote, "....In summary for under 100 yards it's not the best choice...." I would take issue with that statement. I'd say that for 150 yards or less, it IS the best cartridge.

    I'm an old geezer, with over 50 whitetails to my credit. About half were shot with a .30-30 and about half with a .44 Mag. A couple were shot across an open marsh at 200+ yards with an '06. With that much experience, I can tell you that HOW you shoot is way more important than WHAT you shoot.
     
  7. mike .308

    mike .308 Well-Known Member

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    WWB, when you are comparing the energy of a 30-30 against a 30-06 you are basically comparing apples to apples. Both are 30 cal projectiles of approx. the same weight therefore velocity will determine energy and stiking power.

    Comparing a .44 mag to a 30-30 is an apples to oranges situation. On paper a 30-30 has about 177 more pounds of energy than a 240 grain .44 mag. However, the .44 has more cross sectional density and it is more than 50% heavier than a 30 cal projectile. In reality it hits just as hard if not harder especially at ranges under 100 yards. Now just for fun I'll through another wrench into the gears , most 30-30s generate between 1827 and 1902 pounds of energy, a 250 grain Winchester platinium tip .44 mag generates 1859 pounds of energy which makes it more powerful than half of the 30-30 loads before you even factor in the fact it is a larger caliber and a heavier bullet.

    As far as knock down power is concerned the larger heavier projectile often has the advantage. For example, on paper a 115 grain +P 9mm is rated with 43 pounds more energy than a 230 grain 45 acp. Which do you think has more stopping power?

    I'm just curious , if you feel a 30-30 is superior to a .44 then why did you opt to use a .44 on half of the whitetails you bagged?

    I'm sure you are a responsible hunter and don't over extend the capabilities of your rifles. If you own a 30-30 and it serves you well that's great. It's not my intention to bad mouth the 30-30 to the contrary for it's intended purpose its a fine gun as long as its owner is responsible and understands the weapons capabilites. All I am saying is that if I were to walk into a gun shop looking for a deer rifle a 30-30 wouldn't be MY first choice. It's fine to disagree as long as we respect each others right to their own opinion. Afterall, if we all agreed on everything these forums wouldn't be too much fun.

    Some people like Chevy's some like Fords. They both get the job done.
     
  8. luv2safari

    luv2safari Moderator

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    The 336 is a very accurate and well designed LA. If hunting deer with a 30-30 use only 170 gr bullets. They penetrate better and keep their line through the animal much better than the 150s. I have never seen a reason why the 30-30 was loaded with 150s, for that matter. It is such a short range caliber that there is no rational reason for the two loadings. Recoil can't be a reason, either.

    I feel the 30-30 is somewhat marginal, but I have used it on occasions with perfect results. I have a nice older sidelock drilling in 12/12 and 30-30. I have taken several deer with it while hunting blue and ruffed grouse. I also had a Marlin 336 in 30-30 and one in 35 Rem...now, :shock: there is a great close in round! Just my opinions...for what they are worth...

    L2S
     
  9. huntswithdogs

    huntswithdogs Moderator

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    Anyone that hasn't experienced the thump of a 35 Rem, needs to! As for a close in (inside 100 yds) gun the 35 in any of the rifles that it was chambered for couldn't be beat. One of the carbine Rem pumps with a low power scope....MAN O MAN!!!!


    HWD
     
  10. Mule

    Mule Well-Known Member

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    marlin123,

    The Marlin 336 in 30-30 Winchester is an adequate deer round for the conditions you describe, if you do your part regarding shot placement. As WWB said, How you shoot is more important than what you shoot.

    My concern with the lever-action firearm is the half-cock safety. For those inexperienced in firearms handling and hunting, the half-cock safety, in my opinion, is not the best choice. I particularly do not like to see a child with one. Small, cold, gloved hands shake enough at the apprearance of a deer. Manipulating a safety that requires you to pull the trigger in order to safe the gun is not a good idea. The newer models with the addition of a cross bolt safety help, but the cross bolt must be set on safe before the hammer is manipulated. Training is critical.

    If you purchase this firearm, practice operating the safety, at home, with an unloaded gun. Then go to the range and practice, practice, practice.

    L2S,
    Not to be contrary, but the most accurate load in my 336 is a 125gr Sierra HPFP. This load has proved quite lethal as well. If limited to factory ammo, I agree that you can't go wrong with 170's. My gun also shoots exceptionally well with the Sierra 130gr Spitzer pistol bullet. This effectively makes the rifle a two-shooter. One in the chamber and one in the magazine.

    ***marlin123, never use pointed bullets in the tube magazine of a leveraction rifle. The point of the bullet rests on the primer of the cartridge in front of it. Recoil can set off all the cartridges in the magazine. That is why all factory 30-30 ammo is made with flat point bullets.
     
  11. luv2safari

    luv2safari Moderator

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    Mule

    Sierra bullets are motorious for being soft, and a 125 gr will let you down some day. You may take a quartering shot some day that will deflect when hitting a large bone and loose a wounded and suffering animal as a result of insufficient bullet mass that resulted in a shallow but horrific wound.

    I'm not making this up or trying to be contrary. The smallest bullet that should be used for deer hunting with a 30 cal of any flavor is a 150 gr. Sectional density counts just as much as the bullet courses through the animal as it does as the bullet flies down range.

    Since the 30-30 is a close range round, accuracy becomes a relative thing. I would opt for a slightly less accurate lethal bullet, instead of an inadaquate bullet that shoots a bit smaller group...for hunting. This is just advice, but it comes from being involved in over 500 kills over 45 years of doing this. Save the 125s for targets and varmints.IMHO
     
  12. Mule

    Mule Well-Known Member

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    L2S,

    I understand and appreciate your opinion. Let me take it one step farther.

    In the woods I hunt, the SKS has replaced the .30-30 lever gun as the beginners gun of choice. I am sure it is a financial consideration. In my youth is was milsurp bolt guns and 30 cal carbines. All factory loads for the 7.62 X 39 I have seen are 123 gr. I have not been impressed with the performance of the steel cased, hollow point, imports. Soft point game loads from WW and Remington perform efficiently. Again, range, shooter skill and bullet placement must be considered.

    Have you had similiar experience?

    Thanks,
    Mule
     
  13. luv2safari

    luv2safari Moderator

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    I've guided many hunters over the years who insisted on using bullets of insufficient mass and toughness to be adaquate as hunting loads. I witnessed too many animals wounded by bullets that were not right for the job, and had the chore of following up because the guy who "never misses" in fact did miss, while using a bullet that was incorrect from the start. In many cases, a correct bullet would have mitigated the problem vastly. Not in all cases, but why not use something right for the task...or keep your hind end out of the woods altogether.

    We hunters are constantly being assailed by the mass media in this country. We need to clean up our act as much as possible. Using pop guns like the SKS or 30 Carbine are not helping things. I find nothing macho in using marginal hunting weapons with even more marginal loadings. If budget is a problem, the single shot Herrington Richardson based rifles are excellent for the money. I have a two barrel 410/30-30 set I bought when I was very young and still use the 30-30 on occasion; its light, fast, and accurate. These are around for not too much money and beat the heck out of an innacurate and wimpy 7.62X39.

    I very much like your idea of using the Marlin 336 as a two shooter with spitzer bullets. :D I wish I'd thought of that when I hunted with one for a short time. :oops: It was a good rifle in 30-30; I used 170s, and it was an excellent one shot killer. I think that good 165gr spitzers loaded to potential and used one in chamber/one in magazine would be fantastic. 8) 8) :idea:
     
  14. Mike 257

    Mike 257 Guest

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    I have used a Marlin .35 for over 20 yrs and killed lots of deer, only recently I decided to buy a .257 Weatherby.
     
  15. luv2safari

    luv2safari Moderator

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    One of my favorite short range hunting rifles is a 336 in 35 Remington. :!: 8) 8) I wish I still had one... :cry:
     
  16. Pat T

    Pat T Moderator

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    Interesting you guys talk about a .35 Remington 336. I just fired one a friend has tonight for the first time. I didn't think the recoil was bad at all, less perceived recoil than a 94 Winchester in 30-30 IMHO. This one was made in the late sixties or real early seventies, looked like it recently walked out of the gun shop, and had one of the best trigger pulls on a lever action I've squeezed. Don't know if they are still like that. If so, I think it'd be a heck of a woods gun.
     
  17. Mike 257

    Mike 257 Guest

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    Pat

    My .35 Remington 336 is from the 60's my dad bought it to hunt with his brothers but they never really got into it, so I got it in the mid 80's , it's in like new condition, the only thing I did was put a scope on it. It's my only rifle doesn't wear a Leupold, It has a 3x9x40 Bushnell a hot setup back in the 80's
     
  18. luv2safari

    luv2safari Moderator

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    257...

    Was that a 1980's Bushnell? They had advanced optics for their day and were good scopes. :D I still use a 3X9 Bushy Command post on a 721 Remington in 30-06. It is a good combination. I don't get it out of the safe much anymore, but take it out and shoot 'yotes out my bedroom window from time to time. :wink:

    L2S
     
  19. Mike 257

    Mike 257 Guest

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    luv

    Yes , it is an 80's Bushnell. I remember buying it and thinking I had the best scope on earth.
     
  20. Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    I've killed deer with everything you could imagine,12 guage shotgun up close even with rabbit loads will kill if at close range(within 10 feet),22 lr,32win,30/30,300savage,(all of these as a kid)I even chased down a wounded deer somebody else shot and killed it with a stick.Now After I got older and saw enough wounded deer and hogs suffering due to insuffecient power or mostly a bad shot,I promised myself I would use enough gun and get good with it,not just marginal,I bought an old remington bolt action 30/06 and used that till I got into my 30's.This is just my opinion but I prefer to use too much gun before too little,death is something all of us have looming over us but we don't want to suffer,lets not make the animals we hunt suffer.If you make clean effecient kills with a gun then skin it back and go for it,what ever the caliber,please for the animals sake,don't make them suffer.Just an old mans opinion that has suffered alot.Drop-Shot