I like the remingtons,I used to have a 742 BDL with basket weave fore end and butt stock,when I loaded the 180 gr down a bit I got great groups.I killed alot of deer and varmints with that gun.I used to work with a guy that only used remingtons semi-auto in 30/06 and shot super groups out of the box and factory ammo and that was only 6 years ago.I don't own one now but I wish I did.In the high country guides tell their clients to leave the semi's home cause the thin and super cold weather causes slow exrtaction and result in jams.But at the dealership I used to work at,we had a die hard remington fan and he used his every where.I like em but I know the bolt action provides better lock up to prevent any cartdrige blowback when fired,but a semi remmie is so ssmooth.If I could afford one I'd get it.Drop-Shot
I like the remington auto's, have some and have had no trouble with them. I have an old 760 (pump) in 30-06 that I like the best of the semi's and pumps. This particular gun is the carbine model and kicks real bad but I have taken alot of game with it.
I didn't mean to sumit, I wasn't thru. I have a BAR in 7mm and it is great for accuracy but I have had it jam particularly on cold wet days. The rems have to but I found if you use a synthetic lubricant on the Rems they do better. I have not used the BAR much since it is pretty fancy, I tend to save the pretty guns for something other than hunting. Mostly they take up space but are pretty to look at. I have gotten to where I shoot bolt guns the most but I don't have a particular reason for doing so.
i am from the "old school" bolt gun type, at least as far as what I actually shoot and buy. I'm not much of one to put down anybody's shooter, I will be straight up honest that I have never owned an auto or pump (nor is this thread likely to change that), but as many other things that i have discovered over the years that aren't the way the "old timers" told me. i wonder whether there is really any basis (in the real world that we live in, not in an engineering test lab) behind the accuracy, function, durability stuff that i heard as a kid and believed.
I don't know :shock:
Back in the late 1950's, I started whitetail hunting with a Marlin .30-30 lever gun (still got it, still use it on occasion). I ended up getting a semi-auto back in the late 1960's - but I didn't get it because it was an autoloader - I got it because it was shorter and lighter than the Marlin, and a lot easier to use in very heavy cover.
It's one of the original Ruger .44 Mag carbines - never had a hiccup out of it, but I keep it squeaky clean. It has accounted for something around 40 deer in those years.
The remington I had was an older(1973)gun and with 180 hornadys loaded down a bit I shot 2 inch groups.I took wwd's advice and started using 165 gr hornadys on my bolt gun and now I shoot around 1 inch.The semi-auto is not a long range gun,It's almost impossible to stop the shell in the fireing mode to go a little backwards in the semi-auto.The lockup is not as tight as a bolt gun,but I know many people that shoot a 2 inch group with a bolt gun and hit 99% of what they shoot at.I would like a semi-remmie in 30/06 for timber hunting,thats where they shine,and they don't beat you up,Again when I can afford one I will get the remington in 30/06.Drop-Shot
This is to ibex,when abolt action shoots the components that hold the bullet in place keep it there and want let it loose accuracy,on the other hand there is an semi-auto fifle.Same caliber,same make.Both shoot, and the bolt guns is without exception better cause when the shell is fired the locking lugs hold tight,.Because of its design the semi, it will be a little less accurate but if you ever shoot one you fall in love with it.I talked to a gentleman that used bar in 338 win mag.Right on top I ask ed about accuracy and he said 2 inches his friend said he only shoots it 2 times a year and as long as he hits these bears it don't matter where.I walked away because right away I figured him to be a man that shot in the general area and hoped for a hit.That aint me, but any gun is able to do that, with bolt gun or a Semi REMMIE Drop-Shot
your point kinda makes my point. No doubt in any type of ultra accurate application the bolt gunt "should" intrinsiclly have the edge. and in the hands of some one capable of minute groups, sure.
But truthfully there are likely more people shooting/hunting that can't shoot a bolt gun any more accurately than an auto. Your example begs the question: Was it a function of the rifle that couldn't shoot under 2" or the shooter that couldn't shoot any .338 under 2"?
To those of us "in the culture", those that shoot a lot, reload, so on and so forth.. it seems inconceivable that the entire world isn't striving for ultimate accuracy & aren't out there burning up powder in an effort to be as effective as possible with the shooter of choice. But really we are the minority(IMHO), most shotguns sit in a gun case all year long, to be brought out once the week before duck, dove, pheasant or what ever season. shoot a round of trap or skeet to "tune up", goes hunting once maybe twice & then back into the gun case for another year.
The rifle sits right along side the shotty gun, comes down a couple days before deer season a box of store bought shells get run through it, it goes deer hunting and then back in the case for another year.
I'm not sure what point I was trying to make here, but... maybe I need a nap!!
I grew up in a family of avid deer hunters. My father and my uncles on both my mother's side of the family and my father's side shot Remington 742's. 6 of them were chambered to .30-'06 and one was chambered to .308. A few of the fellows in our camp used a lever action .30-30. One alternated between a pump-action Remington in .300 Savage and a battered Model 94.
We hunted a lot of places, but hunted every season in Southern California's D-14 zone in the San Bernardino Mountains, where one of my uncles owned (and still owns) the "family hunting camp."
We're not talking about the dense "Eastern Woods" here. We hunted the desert slope of the range, a semi-arid country of mixed pinion forest and wide open spaces. It was a country where a buck could present you with a shot at 30 yards or 300, or even more.
My father, who shot a late-sixties vintage 742 Remington with the "basket weave" motif mentioned by a prior poster, once used that rifle to shoot a four-point very nearly a quater of a mile away. It dropped to a single 165 grain Sierra Gameking Hollow-Point that obliterated its heart. I'd seen others in our camp take deer out to over 300 yards with these Remington autoloaders, too. They might not win a bench-rest match, but they'll drop a buck as far out as anyone should probably be trying to shoot one, and probably farther than that.
None of these men hunt now. Most are deceased. Those still living have illnesses that prevent them from hunting. The older ones served in Korea, had military training with semi-automatic Garands,and then went to war with them, so going semi-auto in their sporting armament probably seemed a fairly natural thing to do. I know that was the case with my father, who served in the military right at the time that the M-14 was replaced by the M-16. You couldn't tell any of these men that a semi-auto rifle couldn't shoot accurately enough to get the job done in the field. They had, after all, used semi-automatic rifles on the most dangerous animals there are -other human beings also armed and firing back- under some of the worst conditions imaginable.
I've shot my father's 742 Remington a number of times. With ammo that it likes, it'll put five shots into 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 inch groups and is a very pleasant rifle to shoot.
One fellow in our camp did have jamming problems with his 742, but one look at his pitted chamber pretty much told you why. He liked to practice in the off-season with cheap and corrosive surplus ammo and appearently didn't like to clean his rifle afterwards. I'd never seen any of the others fail, even when hunting elk in southern Colorado during snowstorms.
When I was old enough to buy my own rifle, I took advantage of a "sweetheart deal" and purchased a 1927 vintage Griffin and Howe Springfield, making me the only turn-bolt user in the family camp for many years. I bought it because I was a big Hemingway fan when I was kid and "Papa" used a Springfield on safari in Africa, so I figured it must be a good rifle. When it was damaged by fire many years later, I replaced it with the CZ 550 that I shoot currently.
I don't hunt deer very much now, but I do hunt pigs. Here in California, you can hunt pigs throughout the year, and that's part of the reason why I've gravitated toward them as my "big game animal of choice."
My wife wants to hunt pigs with me this year, but she doesn't like the recoil of my CZ 550. She can shoot a 12 guage 11-87 on the sporting clays course all day without complaint, though.
I had her try my dad's 742, and she loved it. We recently bought her a Remington semi-auto of her own.
The one we got -which I assume to be fairly recent production in .30-'06- has satin-finsihed wood and a really neat roll-engraving of a group of sheep on one side of the reciever and elk on the other. It looks tasteful, too, rather than cheap. The trigger is decent -about what she's accustomed to with her 11-87, so she has no complaints. The best part, though, is that she can hit what she aims at with it and can fire it all day long at the range when we go out to practice.
Do her groups match what I can do with with my turn-bolt CZ? Well, uh, no, they don't. Is a 275 pound hog going to notice the difference if it gets hit with one of her rounds or one of mine? I don't think so. Would I hunt with my wife's Remington semi-auto? I don't know. I do know that it is awfully comfortable to shoot and it's sufficently precise to kill a pig out to 350 yards or more. It's also a very pretty rifle with the game scenes on the reciever... If I didn't already have the CZ 550, I'd be awfully tempted.
The long winded point of all of this is that my presonal relaity where it comes to semi-automatic hunting rifles doesn't seem remotely close to what the "gun scribes" suggest it should be. Having seen what they can do in the field first-hand over most of my lifetime, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend one, particularly to someone like my wife, who is recoil-sensitive but needs a certain level of downrange "thump" to get the job done.