Western and/or Alaska Rifle ???

Discussion in 'Rifle Talk' started by 1gsplover, Apr 24, 2005.

  1. 1gsplover

    1gsplover Super Member

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    :?: Hoping to :lol: retire :lol: in a few years, I'm thinking in terms of "last rifle" and "last scattergun". I may already own that last shotgun, so that's no biggie. Just out of curiosity, what's your opinion on a .375 H & H bolt action? Looking to maybe get out west for mule deer/elk/bison or Alaska for caribou/bear/moose. No way I'm even considering an overseas hunt, so that's not an issue. I can borrow a 30-06 and I already have a 45-70 Marlin. Also, I'm not confident taking long range shots at game, so 250 yards would be an absolute maximum range. Granted, this is just a B.S. session for now, but I'm always ready to listen.
    Thanks, /// olde 8) pharte///
     
  2. ZachH

    ZachH Guest

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    375H&H, :shock: No way i'd use this monster on the animals you've mentioned above, except for mabye the largest coastal brown bears I consider this monster to be way overkill. IMO the best rifle for the one gun western hunter is something along the lines of the 300 magnums such as the winchester mag both short and long versions, 300Weatherby Mag, or the new 300 Remington Ultra mag's. jus my opinion though, If you like the 375H&H and don't mind the hellish recoil and noise go for it and have a blast. :D
     

  3. uglydog

    uglydog Super Member

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    As you already have a good close to medium range medium game gun in the 45/70 and have access to a 30/06 for longer range caribou, deer, elk, and moose, a .375 or .338 class gun would be a fine addition for bears. The 30/06 would be a great gun for all the animals you mentioned though bullet selection would be very important on the big bears and bison. The 45/70 should be adequate for the bison out to medium range but I would prefer something a little bigger if I didn't have someone else to back me up. Same goes for the bears, a .300 Win mag feels mighty small when a grizzly is heading your way fast. I prefer the 375 H&H to the 338 and 340 mags as it is a much nicer gun to shoot, in my opinion. Recoil and muzzle blast has not been "hellish" in any way as described by an earlier poster. I find the .375 H&H mag Rem 700 in stainless steel/synthetic that I have to be no worse to shoot than the .300 Win mag A-Bolt with BOSS I also have. About 20-25 rounds is the max I care to shoot through either of them at any one time. This is for 180 gr bullets in the 300 and 270-300 gr bullets in the 375. The .375 is a very versatile caliber, as mentioned on other posts, its trajectory with the 270 gr bullets is the same as that of the 30/06 with 180s. That is a fairly flat shooting gun, at least as flat as is practical for the average person. If one reloads, there look to be some really nice deer and black bear loads out there using the Hornady 220 gr bullet meant for the Winchester .375 big Bore. These are around the 2000-2100 fps mark and are very easy on the shoulder. I plan on using them some next year as I really like my 375, I like even better than the .300 and 7mm/08. If I was looking for one gun for the whole multitude of game listed, one of the .300 mags would be my choice if the big bears and bison were only a rare encounter. Otherwise, I'd go with the 338 or 375 if the main quarry was moose, big bears, and bison.
     
  4. ZachH

    ZachH Guest

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    Uglydog, I never claimed anything about muzzle blast in my post above but I stick to my statement about the 375's recoil though. Uglydog you must admit that the 30-06 & the 45-70 are two very different animals compared to the 375 H&H, and if someone who has used become used to shooting these types of rifles and expect the 375 to be like them they will be in for one heck of a suprise. I've only shot a 375H&H about ten times in my life and don't plan on shooting one much more or ever owning one. The rifle I fired these out of was a ruger M77 bolt rifle I believe it was, not to sure of the model number but it was definetly a ruger shooting some hotly loaded 300Grains :shock: :cry: Not as pleasent as shooting a .308 I tell you.
     
  5. uglydog

    uglydog Super Member

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    Sorry ZachH, I've always thought of muzzle blast as being "noise", didn't know they were different. The recoil of the 375 is much greater than that of a 308, of course, as it is designed to shoot bigger bullets at bigger and much more dangerous game. I would have to agree that recoil in the Ruger 77 seems to be a bit more severe than the several other brands of 375 H&H that I've fired, I think it is inherent in the 77's design as my Ruger in 30/06 kicked the snot out of me. If one can find a Winchester Model 70 Safari they will think they are shooting a 30/06 (well that may be stretching things but it is a soft shooter IMO). Depending on the 45/70 it can be rather harsh in the recoil department, much worse than any 375 H&H that I've shot. The trapdoor replicas can get rather nasty with the modern smokeless loads compared to the blackpowder ones and the Marlin Guide Gun comes back pretty stoutly with the mid and upper level hunting loads, even with the porting and a good recoil pad. Put some Buffalo Bore 45/70 cartridges in a Marlin and you will soon find it ain't your Great-Great-Great Grandpappy's Springfield!!!
    I fully agree that the .375 is a "different animal" than the 30/06 and 45/70 and that is why I recommended it. Why would a person suggest a gun similar to one the original poster already had? The gap I saw in his guns was something for large, dangerous game which the grizzly certainly is. Even though many grizzlies have been taken with a 30/06 and 45/70, they are not the best choice (except for certain models of 45/70 with certain loads), especially if one does not have a back up shooter with a sizable second gun. Even the .300 mags are a bit light for the bigger coastal grizzlies, the locals and guides like to see at least a 338 mag class gun if the client can handle it.
    I agreed with you that a .300 mag of some kind would be the most versatile if one rarely expected to use it for the largest quarry listed but stand by my recommendation if the large bears and bison are the main objective. I would rather be overgunned on a deer than undergunned for a grizzly. Stand in front of one barrelling down on you just once and you will know what I mean.
     
  6. markIVbigblock

    markIVbigblock Super Member

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    I too am lookin to buy a new rifle for larger game....well basically I want a new rifle I have a 300 win mag and a 338 win mag so thats all ill ever need but i want a wby mag since someday I hope to go for grizzly bear and i think that it may give me a bit more confidence i was lookin at the 375 H&H the 378 wby mag or the 340 wby mag ill let u guys know what i end up gettin as for 1gsp if u want the 375 go for it! if itll give u more confidence and u feel u need then thats all the justification u need lifes too short to own only the guns we need if that were the case id only need my 20ga a .22 and a 30-06 but how boring would that be?lol :D

    Aaron
     
  7. ZachH

    ZachH Guest

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    Re: re: Western and/or Alaska Rifle ???

    lol This is true I guess that the correct word for the noise is muzzle blast. Don't know why but i've always considered the muzzleblast to be the concussion and the flame that comes out of some of the slower burning powders and the sound to be seperate when, in reality they are all one in the same. :p
     
  8. Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    1gsplover,there are several folks on this site that have strong opinions based on fact,they own them so this is not opinion based on thoughts,these thoughts are based on facts.If uglydog says a rooster can pull a freight train,you can hook that rascal up.Uglydog gets to hunt alot and has knowledge that some of us don't have.I shot a wesley richards 375 H&H mag and I felt like my eyes was gonna fall out,I was 15 and only shot a few centerfire rifles.Ugulydog and luv2safari appear to have a tremendus amount of experience with the 375,don't listen to me,I was 15,listen to those that own them and shoot them often.Ugulydog and luv2safari says the recoil is not as bad as a 338win mag and pushes not slaps your shoulder and can drop anything on earth.I would listen to them mostly,the other posts are important also and have good thought process.My choice would be a 375 if I was to shoot coastal grizzlys and moose the size of a buss.I can't, and stick with the 30-35 calibers for my use.The important thing is you being happy with a purchase and the purchase fits you well.Good hunting buddy Drop-Shot
     
  9. Driggy

    Driggy Active Member

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    I actually live in Alaska and the choice is obvious. The 375 H&H is by far the most popular round up here. Every place that sells ammo will always have it. As far as being too big for deer and other animals, up here you carry the rifle for protection as much as for hunting. A shot can be the same as a dinner bell to a bear. Most I have talked to are quick to clean a deer after shooting them because they are assuming a bear is on the way. This is info I've gotten from people who have been up here for 20+ years.
     
  10. 1gsplover

    1gsplover Super Member

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    :) COOOOOL!! A response from someone "on the scene" is the real deal to me. Thanks a million. ///olde 8) pharte///
     
  11. luv2safari

    luv2safari Moderator

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    It is pretty well known that my favorite caliber is 375H&H. This being said, I also like and respect the 338 Win and 35 Whalen. If you are not one to relish being pushed around by a 338 or 375, you should consider the Whalen. It closely resembles the fine old German 9,3X62, which has taken everything in Europe and Africa, and has done a helluva job doing so.

    There is a wonderful German round, the 9,3X64 Brenneke, that every died in the wool and real deal bigger game hunter should look at closely. It shoots as flat as a 338 and hits like a 375!! :shock: :shock: I shoot several double rifles in 9,3X74R and one combination gun in that caliber. It is an older rimmed caliber designed for drillings, cape guns, and double rifles, and its ballistics are the same as the 9,3X62. I have taken everything from a 30 pound Steenbok to cape buffalo with the 9,3X74R, which means the 9,3X62 in a bolt action will do the same thing. The 9,3X64 has a bigger case in every direction, and it is a true beltless magnum. Commonly, bullets range from 235gr to 320gr, with 286gr as the most common. Barnes, Swift, Speer, and Nosler make wonderful bullets in 9,3mm (.366).

    If American hunters were more aware of these two powerhouses, they would take right off on this side of the pond, I believe! Either is a perfect Alaskan round. :idea:

    OK...off my soapbox...Take a look at a 35 Whalen. If your shots are confined to around 250 or so yards, the Whalen is all you will ever need. The 375 gives that extra margin I like when in close with critters that bite back or poke holes in backsides, however... :wink: I have used the Whalen on some tough animals with excellent results. One of the reasons I am dirt poor most of the time is that there are too many good choices...I have to have almost every one of them at one time or another... :oops: :wink: I just sent off a shot out JC Higgins Mdl 50 (FN action) in 30-06 to be rebored and chambered to 9,3X62, and an early post war Husqvarna in 30-06 to be rebored to 9,3X64 Brenneke. I'll be keeping my 375's just in case, however... :lol: Hope I haven't muddied the water too much...
     
  12. 1gsplover

    1gsplover Super Member

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    :) And another muchas gracias for a response from someone who has DONE it, not just read or heard about. The .35 W. just lacks the mystique, the coolness factor, that I associate with the .375. On the other hand, since I've got a world of time to contemplate this purchase, I can change :lol: my mind a whole bunch and not spend :D a cent. thanks, ///olde 8) pharte///
     
  13. luv2safari

    luv2safari Moderator

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    Re: re: Western and/or Alaska Rifle ???

    Driggy,

    Have you ever packed out the first load of moose or caribou, only to return to find 400-600 pounds of bear adding to his beltline, dining on your second load? A good friend of mine who lived in moose pass years ago learned to pack out the loins first... :shock: :shock: :wink:
     
  14. Merton Leeper

    Merton Leeper Guest

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    :D I live in Colorado and hunt big game at every opportunity. Last season my first shot at an elk was 334 yards (range finder results) with a Ruger Mark II 77R 338 Winchester Mag. using 210 grain and a nosler partition. I filled my second license later that day at 60 yards. My best shots range from 300 to 400 yards. I zero in at 200 yards each year using a Bosch & Lombe 4 X 12 X 50 scope. This is my favorite rifle, it always shoots three rounds into a quarter size hole. My other rifle, a Weatherby Vanguard in 7mm Mag is sighted in at a 200 yard zero and has a Burris Fullfield 3.5 X 10 X50 scope housed with a ballistic plex. If I shoot a 165 grain Federal Premium Sierra Gameking BTSP. This is a new rifle for me replacing my old Mark I Ruger M77. Shoots perfect out of the box!

    With these two rifles, I can cover all game in Alaska (the 338 can use from 200 to 300 grain loads) and the 7mm Mag to 175 grains in most loads.

    If I had to choose only one rifle as my favorite, it would be my trusty 338 Win Mag. My signature shows how it has been customized. Good luck on your choice of calibers. Semper Fi
     
  15. Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    Congrats on the elk.and at that range you must have young eyes,on the other hand you do sign off with semper fi so you are most likely trained in long distance shooting.My cousin was in the marine corps in vietnam and was a team leader of shooters.They didn't call themselves snipers but he regularly shot 300 meters.In Shilloute shooting we would shoot revolver class and only shot 100 meters at rams.My cousin would shoot the rams at 300 meters.He said his longest kill was 600 meters with a bolt action remington 308,so uncle sam probebley helped train you in long distance shooting,and pratcice pays off too.Good shot.Drop-Shot
     
  16. goldeyeslayer

    goldeyeslayer Guest

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    If you go to alaska huntign with a 300, I would strongley suggest carrying a major handgun, for alaska is grizzley country, and if you had the 375 it would be alright fordefense of a grizzley. For instance when I went brown bear hunting both times I have used a .458 lott. Yes it kicks more than a .375
     
  17. 1gsplover

    1gsplover Super Member

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    :) Yes, it will DEFINITELY be at least a .375 if I go to the ICE BOX. For the lower 48, I can put the borrow on a .300 Win Mag. Thanks, Everyone.
    ///olde 8) pharte/// :lol:
     
  18. Drop-Shot

    Drop-Shot Super Member

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    Never been to Alaska but one day that will change.Don't they have a minium cartridge for grizz?I thought I heard or read it was 338,but I have heard from my brother that worked on the Kenia penusla that all the oil field big wig oil field reps go bear hunting with a 375 H&H.I have not shot a 458 lott but I saw one,it looked like a cigar,must be alot of power.When a giant coastal grizz confronts you ,you want something big and my brother saw more 375H&H's than any other cartridge in his neck of the woods.It has worked fine for many years and I don't see any change ahead.The 375 ultra mag will most likely work also but there every one carrys 375 H&H cartridges at every store from south to north as my brothers 2 year stay revealed.Drop-Shot
     
  19. 1gsplover

    1gsplover Super Member

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    :D :lol: :D :lol: :D :lol: :D :lol: Got a major-good deal on a Weatherby Mk V... looks like new :!: Yeah, I am happy, happy, happy... my own .375H&H. It CANNOT get any better!!! Well, maybe when I begin eating fresh venison, then that'll be better.
    ///olde 8) pharte///
     
  20. moontroll

    moontroll Guest

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    I would recomend a 22 mag with a tree stand(shoot for the eye).I hear tracking a wounded grizzly is a lot of fun,but you must carry a 454 cascul or 480 rugger pistol with you.Hunting grizzly is about the adrenalin :wink: rush aint it. :)