wwb thanks for the info but the embarresing thing is I do reload ,I use IMR 4350,does powder get too old? I bought a case of this during the 70's and I wonder if thats it?I would have to go back to Montana to the storage place in Helena,but I think it's 56.5 gr IMR 4350,180 gr nosler partition.I spent all day loading just my older ruger 30/06,and if I remmember right,If I went 57gr my group worsened,but at 56 gr I felt even though the group got tighter,the velocity suffered.I have not reloaded since Montana cause there are too many hunters here,I'll wait till I get back to montana,mabe I'll try some4064 I still have.All my powder is old,should that matter?They are sealed containers,I have unique,all from the middle 70's.I probely need to go get my reloading stuff and hit the rifle range here in Washington.Drop-Shot